Showing posts with label Kiss. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Kiss. Show all posts

Thursday, 18 June 2020

Ace Frehley: The Man! The Myth! The Legend! And The Former Guitarist Of Kiss, In Case You Were Wondering.

Originally published in Rave-Up #18 (1990)
Interview by Devorah Ostrov

Ace Frehley and his band, including Richie Scarlet
Photo: Ron Akiyama
Ace Frehley: The Man! The Myth! The Legend!

For some ridiculous reason, the advert for Frehley's recent show at the Omni thought it was necessary to point out he was also "The former guitarist of Kiss." Like you're gonna say, "Oh, that Ace Frehley!"

Before my chat with Frehley about his new album, Trouble Walkin', the folks at Megaforce Records kindly sent me a package containing five pounds of press clippings, which covered almost every question I could think of a dozen or so times.

As it happened, I had lots of spare time to read everything and cross-reference his answers. Because when the appointed interview hour arrived and passed, and four more hours went by — the phone finally rang! Frehley had just checked into his Atlanta, Georgia, hotel room. It seemed the trip from wherever to Atlanta had been hell, and he sounded exhausted.

Ace Frehley
Megaforce Records publicity photo
So, I decided to skip the amusing quip I'd been rehearsing for the past couple of hours ("Were you having trouble walkin' to the telephone?") and instead, opened with something a little more (possibly) contentious.

Why is Tod Howarth, the singer, guitarist and songwriter on Ace's two previous solo albums, Frehley's Comet and Second Sighting, nowhere to be found on Trouble Walkin'?

"I don't think my fans were happy with Tod's musical direction," states Frehley, choosing his words carefully.

Is he referring to the lackluster response to Second Sighting, which many critics dismissed as, at best, nothing to get excited about?

"We had just come off the road when we recorded that album," he says. "I didn't have much new material, but Tod had written a lot of songs. We were working under a limited time frame, so I just let him sing half the songs. Plus, I was sick with bronchitis during the recording sessions, so I wasn't involved with it as much as I should have been. Basically, it didn't come out like an Ace Frehley record. It came out like an Ace and Tod record. Unfortunately, a lot of my fans weren't too thrilled with it."

Amongst other personnel changes, Trouble Walkin' sees the return of vocalist/guitarist Richie Scarlet, who was part of Ace's original solo lineup during his first post-Kiss tour circa 1984/1985. And the difference is dramatic. 

Trouble Walkin' (Megaforce/Atlantic 1989)
"I think people are a lot happier with Richie's direction," observes Frehley. "His direction is the same as my old roots." I don't actually need to ask what those old roots might be because numerous articles in the stack address that very topic — they include the Who, the Jeff Beck Group, and Cream.

Reviews for Trouble Walkin' are indeed much more positive, with nearly everybody hailing it as a major triumph and a return to form. "I haven't read a bad review of it yet," remarks Frehley. "If it keeps going the way it is, it's going to be my most successful album!"

Peter Criss and various members of Skid Row make guest appearances on the record, adding backing vocals on several tunes, including "2 Young 2 Die," "Back to School," and the LP's title track. "You can really hear Peter's voice on the title track," notes Frehley, and I choose to believe he means that as a good thing.

Although Frehley's former bandmate joined him onstage in LA a couple of years ago (for an encore of "Deuce"), this was the first time the two had recorded together since the drummer's brief appearance on Kiss' 1979 Dynasty album. So, what was it like?

Trouble Walkin' promo poster autographed by Ace Frehley
"It was great working with him!" enthuses Frehley. "After ten years apart, the magic was still there."

How did Skid Row get involved?

"I met Skid Row on MTV when we were co-hosting Headbanger's Ball. After that, they invited me to jam with them onstage when they were opening for Bon Jovi. When Sebastian [Bach, Skid Row frontman] found out I was going into the studio to record my new album, he offered his services as a background vocalist, and he brought Snake [guitarist] and Rachel [Bolan, bassist] with him."

Ace Frehley posing for a music magazine
 poster at the height of his Kiss glory.
Frehley co-wrote seven of the ten songs on Trouble Walkin', and he sings lead on almost everything. But "2 Young 2 Die" — a Frehley/Scarlet collaboration, with Scarlet handling the vocals — really stands out. Even more so, as I distinctly detect a nod to Thin Lizzy's "Bad Reputation."

"You think '2 Young 2 Die' sounds like Thin Lizzy?!" Frehley's voice rises alarmingly, and I worry I've made a terrible mistake. However, it turns out he's rather pleased with my comparison.

"I consider that a compliment!" he gushes. "I was a big fan of those guys. It was tragic the way Phil Lynott [Thin Lizzy vocalist] died. It was such a waste."

Ironically, for a while, Frehley was in danger of having the same thing said about him. But apparently (according to what I've read), he's recently cleaned up his drug and alcohol problems.

"It's nice to be off all that nonsense," he declares. "I think the difference really shows in my new album. I was playing well and singing well. I'm taking care of business and thinking with a clear head."

Awesome poster for Ace's
November 2013 Chicago dates.
He's also somewhat thinner. "I've lost 15 pounds!" Frehley proudly announces.

How? I demand to know (probably a bit too emphatically).

"Ultra Slim Fast!"

A promo video for "Do Ya," one of two cover tunes on the LP, is being shown in regular rotation on MTV, and Top 40 radio stations are starting to play the single. Surprisingly, Frehley initially had some doubts about recording the song.

Written by the Move's Jeff Lynne just as that outfit morphed into ELO, "Do Ya" was first issued in 1972 as the B-side to "California Man." Frehley's version doesn't stray far from the original's riff-oriented power-pop arrangement, and he thanks me when I tell him his delivery is perfect.

But he admits, "I just couldn't see myself singing it. I practiced a lot, trying to get the vocals right." He emits one of his signature chuckles before adding, "I would never write anything like that!"

"Hide Your Heart," the LP's other cover song, is also more suited to Frehley than the three other artists who have (more or less) simultaneously released it. Penned by the team of Desmond Child, Holly Knight, and Kiss' Paul Stanley, so far this year it's been included on albums by Molly Hatchet, Robin Beck, and Kiss — who put it on Hot In The Shade, which came out alongside Trouble Walkin' in October.

A Trouble Walkin' temporary tattoo 
Yet "Hide Your Heart" originally showed up last year on Bonnie Tyler's Notes From America, which also coincidently featured Frehley's bassist John Regan. "That's how I got turned on to the song," explains Ace. "I had no idea that Kiss was going to do it. Gene [Simmons] asked me, in a nice way, if I would consider taking it off the record. But my record company was thrilled with my version and refused to take it off."

I have to ask, how does he think Kiss' version compares to his own?

"I think theirs is different..." he muses, and there's another chuckle as he trails off. "I think it's just as good. I must be diplomatic these days."

There's a question I've been saving for the end of this interview. There's (shockingly) nothing about it in the press kit, but it's something I'm sure readers of this fanzine have been wondering about for the last twelve years...

What does Frehley really think about Kiss Meets The Phantom Of The Park?"

"It was a good comedy."

Listing for Ace's (former guitarist 
of Kiss) show at the Omni in Oakland
 April 7, 1990 
Was it actually scripted? Or did you guys just make it up as you went along?

"Of course, it was scripted! [You're correct if you sense some indignation in his answer.] But I didn't have any lines to start with. The original script just had me saying 'Awwck.' [I've used the phonetic spelling.] I told my manager that it was unacceptable. I wanted some lines like everyone else in the film."

Some of Frehley's hard-fought-for lines are:

• "And they've got guns!"
• "Insufficient data at the moment, Star Child."
• "Beethoven's Fifth!"
• "Leave it to me, Star Child. I'll bend these beams with my mind."

Summing up the made-for-TV movie as "pretty stupid," Frehley reveals the strained dynamics that led to his departure from Kiss in 1982: "The big problem was that I didn't take Kiss seriously, but Gene did. Did you see us on the Tom Snyder show? Try to get a hold of the video. It's pretty hilarious. Gene's totally serious, and I'm laughing hysterically! I never took it seriously — the make-up or anything. I just thought it was a goof."

Friday, 17 May 2019

Angel: The Heavenly Band With Down-To-Earth Problems, A 1993 Interview With Frank DiMino & Felix Robinson

Originally published in American Music Press (May 1993)
By Devorah Ostrov & Billy Rowe

Angel - photo from the Sinful LP cover
Five unbelievably beautiful boys clothed in white satin jumpsuits, purveyors of pomp rock, pure pop enthusiasts, the "anti-Kiss," musical messengers sent from Heaven … Angel was all of these. No wonder it got confusing.

What emerges during more than four hours of telephone interviews with Angel's vocalist Frank DiMino and bassist Felix Robinson is the story of a band that had everything going for it, but seemingly no idea what it really wanted — except fame.

It's also apparent that they were molded (if not downright suffocated) by Neil Bogart's unwavering determination to make them as big as Kiss. Or as Robinson remarked when we asked why Angel once flirted with a Giorgio Moroder-produced disco beat: "Our record company was willing to make us do anything to succeed, and we were willing to listen to them."

* * *

Casablanca Records advert
Before meeting up in Washington, D.C. in 1974, DiMino, guitarist Edwin "Punky" Meadows, keyboardist Gregg Giuffria, drummer Barry Brandt, and original bassist Mickey Jones had all been in various semi-successful East Coast club bands including the Cherry People (Meadows), Max (DiMino and Brandt), and Bux (Meadows and Brandt).

"When we first started, we played two shows a night at a club called Bogies," recalls DiMino. "Everyone knew us from different bands around the area, so there was a lot of interest. We had a lot of people come down from record labels."

One long-held rumor claims Gene Simmons "discovered" the group at Bogies and brought them to the attention of Casablanca Records president Neil Bogart. (Kiss had released its debut album on the label a year earlier.)

"What happened was Gene and Paul [Stanley] were playing at Largo in D.C.," says DiMino. "And [rock writer] Gordon Fletcher would bring people down from Largo [to Bogies] because we were good friends with him. He happened to bring Gene and Paul down one night, and they stayed for the set. That's when they talked to us about Neil."

At the same time, Angel was approached with numerous management offers, among them Leber-Krebs (Aerosmith/New York Dolls) and Bill Aucoin (Kiss/Starz). But it was David Joseph of the Toby Organization who signed the band and relocated it to Los Angeles.

Angel - publicity photo
According to Robinson, who joined the group in 1977, Angel's image and stance were already in place even at this early stage. "The concept was a band of very good-looking young men who did more than just stand on stage and play extended jams. The effort was put into playing complete songs in four- and five-minute segments, and the band had the ability to present the songs in a more or less theatrical sense with a very aggressive stage presence."

"We wore white on stage from the start," states DiMino.

Punky Meadows - publicity photo
In LA, the record company bidding wars began in earnest, the main contenders being Capitol Records and the smaller Casablanca.

"We were really close to a deal with Capitol," says DiMino, "but we wanted to go with Neil because we liked the way he talked."

"Casablanca was the label with the least to offer," laughs Robinson. "Neil had a grand vision, but not a lot of money — only a belief in his own abilities. He said, 'If you guys will go with me, I will do whatever I have to do to make you successful.' That's something the other record companies had not said. They were offering large numbers of dollars, but that commitment was not a personal commitment. Neil Bogart was willing to put his name on the line."

And their management company was willing to put its money on the line with the then-novel idea of a self-financed album, giving the group even more leverage.

DiMino picks up the narrative: "When we finished the album, we went to Capitol, ready to sign. But we wanted to talk to Neil one more time. We put Capitol off for a day and went to see Neil. He loved the album and he matched Capitol's deal."

Angel in Japan 
Punky shows off his copy of Music Life
Released by Casablanca in October 1975, Angel's eponymous debut presented an exceptionally talented and polished (if a tad keyboard crazed: the liner notes credit Giuffria with playing the organ, piano, clarinet, harpsichord, mellotron, string ensemble, and all synthesizers) heavy pomp rock outfit.

Robinson still considers "Tower," the LP's opening track, to be Angel's "signature tune." He mentions that they kicked off every show with it "right up to the very end," and adds, "It's a great tune! Kind of an ethereal sounding lyric. What's it about? It's about the tower!"

The group's sophomore album, Helluva Band, followed the same pattern, while it racked up comparisons to Queen and fanned the flames of an imaginary rivalry with Kiss.

As Pam Brown wrote in the September 1976 issue of Creem magazine: "Here they are, kids … Casablanca's new Kiss! Five pretty faces with long, long, British haircuts. Flowing white robes, very sheik in the style of Shah Freddy Mercury. Pink Floyd orchestration and Queen operation with lots of o-o-o-o-o-o's."

"We were always compared to Queen," says Robinson, "but we never paid much attention to them."

Helluva Band (Casablanca Records 1976)
Photography by Barry Levine/Graphics by Gribbitt!
Meanwhile, the publicity machine was hard at work. Circus magazine readers voted Angel the #1 group, and Creem ran a two-page photo spread showing them applying make-up and blow-drying their hair under the headline: "Mirror, Mirror On The Wall, Who's The Prettiest Band Of Them All?"

"America's Only Rock 'n' Roll Magazine" also created a satirical running gag based around Meadows' pouting lips, which in turn prompted Frank Zappa to write "Punky's Whips."

By their third LP, 1977's On Earth As It Is In Heaven, a small but perceivable transformation had taken place in the group's music: there was less pomposity, less flash just for the sake of flash. And there was a definite move towards pop.

"It was a conscious effort," declares DiMino, before he drops the first hint of Casablanca's control over Angel. "It was one of those things where there was so much input from everyone, the label, etc., it got really confusing. We tried to keep, more or less, the style from the first two albums adding it to the pop kinda stuff."

Angel - publicity still from the 1980 film Foxes
One other change took place around this time. Between the release of On Earth and the recording of the next album, Robinson replaced Mickey Jones.

"We just had a falling out," DiMino simply states when asked about the bass player's exit. However, Robinson is a bit more expansive on the subject: "Mickey was a rock 'n' roll star, a legend in his own mind — but he was not a musician."

* * *

White Hot insert - become a member
 of Angel's Earth Force fan club for $5.00
Felix Robinson was a 25-year-old professional musician living in St. Louis, Missouri, when he met the members of Angel. And he admits that it was a less-than-auspicious encounter.

He had just acquired a priceless 1969 Precision bass for $150 when a friend called and told him, "There's a band playing at the Fox Theatre. They just put out a record, and the record company gave 'em a lotta money."

Robinson remembers, "I was told if I went down there and negotiated through Bill Schereck [Angel's tour manager] I could sell them this bass for heck, $300 or $400! After the show, I went to the Holiday Inn where they were staying. I introduced myself to Bill and said, 'I've got a bass that I think your bass player might be interested in.' I opened the case. Bill said, 'We'll buy it.' They all came by, looked at me and said, 'Who the hell are you?'"

What did Robinson think of Angel at that point — honestly? "I thought it was a pretty lame band! I thought, 'The guitar player looks good, but he's not playing music he's comfortable with. The drummer's too frantic. The singer...' Nothing was right. Of course, I realized they were playing to 3,000 screaming 16- and 17-year-old fans, and so who am I to criticize this?"

Punky applies his make-up
Robinson met the guys again a few months later when he was in LA playing with The Word, an "extremely commercial" pop band also managed by Schereck. And this time (perhaps because they knew they’d soon be in the market for a new bassist), they paid a lot more attention to him. "I had hair down to my butt and I looked like a member of Angel," observes Robinson.

Meadows and Giuffria contacted Robinson during the recording of On Earth to collaborate on material for the group's fourth LP, White Hot.

"They said, 'We're doing another record and our bass player is out of town,'" muses Robinson. "At first, I didn't understand what that meant. There's no code word there. 'Out of town' really was kinda out of town. But it also meant that Mickey was not really interested in writing songs for the next record."

Casablanca advert for White Hot
When they returned from touring in support of On Earth, Robinson officially became Angel's new bassist. Because of the timing, it's easy to attribute the night and day difference between White Hot and the albums that preceded it to Robinson's input.

But Robinson doesn't agree. "Although I think the direction the band was going in musically was accelerated because of my involvement, the change that occurred was really more in terms of lyrical content. There's a song called 'Telephone Exchange,' and it always seemed to me to be one of the transitional tunes from the third to the fourth album. It actually has some kind of a story behind it. The lyrics seem to speak toward a relationship between people, and less about some kind of ethereal concept of what's going on in the universe."  

"By the time you get to White Hot," he continues, "you're seeing a lot of songs that have to do with relationships. And Frankie, who had always been responsible for writing the lyrics, really started to blossom. He started to feel more comfortable with telling a story. Punky, who had always been more of a blues guitar player, was able to play more in that style. Barry is a fantastic drummer, but he'd been left to his own devices for three albums, therefore the songs had rhythmic parts that were just like extended jams. So, what we were doing was creating a more definable concept in terms of songwriting."

"Ain't Gonna Eat Out My Heart Anymore" b/w
"Flying with Broken Wings" - picture sleeve 45 (1977)
And they finally got the keyboards (somewhat) under control.

"Oh, Gregg was all over the place!" chuckles Robinson, who plays keyboards himself. "Gregg was always trying to play every bass line. He wanted to play along with every guitar part, and he wanted to play with every vocal part. When I joined Angel, for the first time a member of the band was able to interpret to Gregg what the keyboard part needed to be. Punky was very grateful for this. Punky and I would work out tunes, and he would say, 'This is a place for the keyboards.' I would play the keyboard part, and when it came time to work it up as a band, I was able to interpret that keyboard part to Gregg."

A veritable pop music masterpiece, White Hot was Angel's most successful LP. And DiMino says it was his personal favorite: "It was the one we put the most energy into, and actually, it was the most fun to do. Everyone was a little more clear on the direction we were going in."

Angel - publicity photo
The group's shift in direction paid off when their cover of "Ain't Gonna Eat My Heart Out Anymore" entered the Top 50. Previously a hit for the Young Rascals in 1965, it was the first time Angel had included a cover song on an album (although DiMino mentions that they also recorded a version of the Left Banke's "Walk Away Renee" at the same time).

Neither DiMino or Robinson recall precisely who suggested they record the song. But Robinson infers it was a record company decision when he states, "It was an attempt to bring in a song that could be a hit record. We needed a hit record."

Angel pose in street attire for this publicity pic
"The band had been spending a lot of money," he acknowledges, "and was barely recouping it for the record company. As a matter of fact, the band never recouped everything that it spent. So, making a lot of money was important."

(Robinson reveals one fun way that Angel threw money around: "A band like Styx — a very popular band that was selling millions of records — would pull up to shows in rental station wagons, because when you're somewhere like Flint, Michigan, there aren't any limo companies. We would have limousines come from Chicago. We would have limousines drive 100 miles to take us from the hotel to the show, which was maybe a ten-minute ride, just so 30 or 40 of our fans and all the truck drivers and roadies would see us get out of the limousine. We did that many times!")

At this point, how committed was Casablanca to pushing the group?

"Very committed," confirms Robinson. "Neil was obsessed by the desire to make Angel succeed. He wanted Angel to be as big as Kiss."

* * *

Angel On Tour - promo poster
When Angel hit the road in promotion of White Hot, they were playing the country's largest stadiums (surprisingly they only ever toured in America and Japan; also surprisingly, they never shared a bill with Kiss), and the show was an awesome spectacle.

Magical illusions conceived by Doug Henning and built by Sid and Marty Krofft (creators of H.R. Pufnstuff) got them on and off stage. And there was "George," a talking and blinking hologram in the shape of Angel's logo. (Apparently, George's face belonged to Toby employee/Angel co-manager Warren Entner).

Each performance began with several mysterious cubes spread about the stage. Then, during an opening narration that alleged the group had been sent to Earth as musical messengers from the angel Gabriel, two figures dressed in black started arranging the boxes.

The prototype cover concept for Bad Publicity
"They put five cubes on top of each other," says DiMino. "Chaser lights would go on, then a light would come on inside the cubes and one of us would appear. Then they'd build the next one, and another guy would appear. So, you had five chances to figure out how we did it."

And, no... he doesn't give away the secret during this interview! Robinson, on the other hand, is happy to tell us how some of the tricks worked.

First, he divulges the mystery of the hologram effect: "Rear projection. Face made from plexiglass in the contour of a human face. Much larger than life-size — George's face was about six-feet high and four-feet wide — on a 15-hundred-pound scissor lift that rose from behind the group. At a certain point in our show, the lights would come down and we would stop playing. This giant head would come up from behind the amplifiers, open its eyes, and speak to the audience."

Poster included in the
On Earth As It Is In Heaven LP
Making an obvious reference to marijuana smoke, George said:

"Tonight, in this place I smell the aroma of the Gods
The gates of heaven are open to all
Do you feel the music? 
Do you feel the music?"

Robinson continues, "And Frankie would scream, 'Do you feel it?' The crowd would cheer, and we would go into another song."

Then he talks us through the show's closing puzzle. "A huge recreation of our album cover would come out of the ceiling. It was about 12-foot by 12-foot and about a foot thick. It would land on a large white table, a hollow table — or so it seemed. When we finished our last song, we would put down our instruments, walk up a flight of stairs and go inside this record cover. The cover would rise up into the air and explode into about 40 pieces. The trick worked as follows: We would go inside the album cover and dive inside this white table that would be wheeled off stage as the album was rising up in the air. The album would explode, our road manager would tap on the lid three times so we would know it was safe to open the trap door, we would run on stage, pick up our instruments and do the encore."

One show from the White Hot tour made it into the rock history books, but it had nothing to do with the special effects. "Played wild gig w/Godz in San Diego, 1978," succinctly states the compendium Headbangers: The Worldwide Book Of Heavy Metal Bands. DiMino and Robinson recount the (literal) blow-by-blow events of the evening...

Angel - promo photo
DiMino: In the middle of that night's show everyone was standing up, clapping, having a good time. So, I asked them to come down to the stage.

Robinson: They had a very strict code at the San Diego Sports Arena which said: You do not get up out of your seat, and you do not go down to the stage. But of course, we were Angel! And when Frankie said, "Come on down!" about three or four thousand 16- and 17-year-old girls got up and ran to the front of the stage!

Angel headline Cleveland's Public Hall with
support from the Babys & Godz - March 8, 1978
(Thanks to Mark Chatfield for the advert!)
DiMino: The security guards decided they didn't want that to happen, and they started throwing people around.

Robinson: Frankie could see that these kids were really getting pummelled. He walked to the front of the stage and looked down at one of the bouncers who was in the midst of picking up some poor 14-year-old girl and throwing her six or eight feet through the air...

DiMino: I called out the guy's name and told him to leave everyone alone.

Robinson: Frankie said, "I invited them down here. If they wanna come down, it's okay with us!" Of course, more kids started coming down!

DiMino: The guy came up to the front of the stage, gave me the finger, and went to grab my mike stand.

Robinson: Frankie proceeded to plant his mike stand in the middle of the guy's forehead. Axl Rose would've been proud! Now, this guy was big, and he grabbed the mike stand. Frankie wouldn't let go of it, so Frankie and the mike stand went off the stage! My bass roadie, Steve Brooks, who's about 6'6" and weighs about 240 pounds, came flying from behind me, took a swan dive into the audience, and started fighting. Punky jumped off the stage with a beer bottle in his hand after one of the security guys. I took off my bass and started swinging it over my head at one of 'em. Gregg... I believe Gregg ran behind his keyboard rig.

White Hot LP insert 
DiMino: Barry kept playing!

Robinson: By the time we got back up on stage — nobody was hurt very badly, just ripped up a little bit — the house lights were up, and the Fire Marshal was standing next to my amp, giving me the cross-the-throat thing, "Cut it!"

DiMino: I told everyone we would keep playing until they turned off the power.

Robinson: We played one more song. The audience was screaming! In approval! There were still fights going on in front of the stage. The house lights were still up. There were security people all over the place. And the fun wasn't over yet; we had to get back to our dressing room — about a 40/50-foot walk. The original guy who had provoked us had gotten five or six of his friends together to jump us between the stage and the dressing room. The Godz, a very disgusting bunch of bikers from Ohio who carried loaded weapons with them everywhere they went, had been backstage cheering us on. And, I might add, they were really impressed! They had decided they were going to protect us.

Angel in Japan 
DiMino: The Godz and our road crew made a chain, and we went right in between them to the dressing room. The Chief of Police came back and wanted to arrest me for inciting a riot...

Robinson: I stood up and said, "Yes! Let's go to jail! This is great press!" Our manager said, "We can't go to jail. Frank will have to make an apology. Frank has to go out front and try to get calm restored." Frank went back on stage and said, "You gotta cool it … the show's over ... we've gotta leave … we love you all … thanks for coming … be careful … and stop fighting!"

DiMino: It all worked out.

Robinson: One of the funny anecdotes of this was, my mother — who had never seen the band before — was living in San Diego, and had come to the show with my aunt. They were both in their 70s. After this whole thing had died down, I went outside and found them. My mom says, "Is it like this every time you play?"

* * *

Foxes promo poster
In 1979 Angel were looking forward to recording their fifth, and ultimately final, studio album (a double live LP completes the catalog). And they had some quite radical plans in mind for it.

Firstly, fed up with being more known for their all-white image (and the constant press ridicule it fostered) rather than their music, they were determined to lose the costumes. (Perpetuating one old myth, The Rolling Stone Encyclopedia of Rock & Roll maintains: "Angel was designed as the dressed-in-white counterpart of Casablanca labelmate Kiss.")

"To us, it was too much of a formula," says Robinson. "It was a little too like the Monkees; we always had to appear in character. Do you remember platform shoes? How difficult it was to walk in 'em? I wore platform shoes just about every day of my life for a year. I still have a back problem from it. One day I was getting out of a limousine, and I fell flat on my butt! I finally got on my feet and said, 'What the hell am I doing this for?' It was absurd!"

Furthermore, in a departure from the usual play on angelic terminology, the new record would be called Bad Publicity. The front cover, photographed by Barry Levine over a two-day session at the Hollywood Blvd. Hyatt House, showed them in fashionable street attire, partying with cards, booze and women. The back cover featured a collage of their negative reviews.

Frank Zappa performing "Punky's Whips"
The band were pleased with the result. But oops, they'd forgotten who was really in charge.

Robinson recollects: "When the photographs were put in front of Neil Bogart, he said, 'I can't have this. You'll have to reshoot the cover.' Our manager said, 'But Neil, we spent $50,000 shooting this cover!' Neil said, 'I'll pay for it.' And he literally wrote a check for $50,000. We had new [white] clothes made, and we reshot the cover."

The record was also renamed Sinful, but one photo from Levine's Bad Publicity photo session, which showed the group in a police line-up, was allowed to stay.

(While super rare, we're informed that a few copies with the prototype Bad Publicity cover did get out!)

Just how pervasive was Casablanca's control over Angel?

"When Kiss scored a Top 10 hit with 'Beth,' we were told to write a song like 'Beth,'" asserts Robinson. "We were told to write a song like 'Rock and Roll All Nite.' They said, 'Write an anthem song.' And we tried."

Angel - Casablanca Records/Toby Management publicity photo
At another point in the interview, Robinson seethes, "The management and the record company always had complete control over this band. There was never any time when the band had complete control over what it did musically."

Didn't that drive them crazy?

Koh Hasebe pic for Japanese Burrn! magazine
"It drove us all crazy!" he nearly shouts. "I think we all felt that we were compromising our individuality, that we were selling out. But we were perfectly willing to do it because we felt it was a guarantee of success."

With Sinful, Angel truly hit its recording stride. On tunes like "L.A. Lady" (with Giuffria pounding out a great honky-tonk piano), "Lovers Live On," "Just Can't Take It," "I'll Bring the Whole World to Your Door," and "Wild and Hot" (showcasing Robinson on an upfront vocal mix), they confidently used elements of R&B, power pop, and hard rock to create some real rock 'n' roll gems.

Robinson calls the LP "the musical culmination of the band." And in a Kerrang magazine retrospective of the group, rock writer Howard Johnson enthuses: "Sinful is without a doubt the finest slab of metal/ pop ever laid down!"

With the '79 tour — a package deal with Mahogany Rush and Humble Pie alternating as headliners — there was new management (Leber-Krebs) and an important concession by Casablanca: on non-headlining nights, the guys could wear "alternative" clothes.

Unfortunately, it was too little too late. Sinful should have fulfilled Neil Bogart's dream of making Angel as big as Kiss, but instead, for the first time, the tour found them playing to half-full auditoriums and having to cancel some gigs.

"Rock N Rollers" b/w "Mariner" 
Japanese picture sleeve issued in 1976
The explanation offered at the time blamed a wide-spread recession in the music business, which Robinson reiterates: "The price of oil had raised the price of vinyl and record manufacturing was becoming too expensive. The cost of touring became very expensive."

And he emphasizes that it wasn't just Angel's problem. "No one was doing well. Anyone who was in the music business at that point will remember what I'm talking about."

Maybe. But there's a long list of groups that sold millions of records in '79 and had no difficulty filling concert halls: Cheap Trick, the Cars, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Dire Straits, Squeeze... It's possible that new wave, as much as or more so than the price of oil, was Angel's nemesis.

Interestingly, if Angel had stayed the course in which they were headed — less complicated music combined with a toned-down look — they could have easily competed with Cheap Trick and the Cars. But Bogart was impatient to make Angel a household name, and it's likely he didn't understand and/or take new wave seriously.

Angel - promo poster
What Bogart understood was disco. Angel's labelmates included Lipps, Inc. and the Village People, as well as disco queen Donna Summer. And in 1979, Donna Summer (along with her producer Giorgio Moroder) was enjoying massive success with the album Bad Girls.

Bogart was also well aware of the power of promotion. Kiss had already made the monumentally silly made-for-TV movie Kiss Meets The Phantom Of The Park, and in 1978 Casablanca's Filmworks division received a Best Picture nomination for Midnight Express (and Giorgio Moroder won the Oscar for best original score). The idea of using films to publicize the label's own acts must have appealed to him.

You can almost see Bogart's mind at work. Angel has to make a movie, and Giorgio Moroder has to produce the soundtrack. Released in 1980, Foxes was a coming-of-age story about four teenage girls (amongst them Jodie Foster and ex-Runaway Cherie Currie). It was also, states Robinson, "a culmination of the record company's control over the band."

"We were told we were going to be in this movie," he says. "This was another way to break the band. We'll do some songs in the movie. The movie's going to be about us. It's an Angel movie! It just happens to have Jodie Foster in it."

Angel - promo poster
Evidently, in its initial conception, Foxes did focus a great deal more on Angel. "We were involved in the script," insists Robinson, "our names were mentioned, we had lines."

But somewhere along the way, going to an Angel concert became just a distraction in the girls' otherwise angst-filled lives. And while there was extensive filming of entire songs, only two — "Virginia" and "20th Century Foxes," both written by the group especially for the film — were used. "I'm sure the footage is laying in somebody's vault," reflects Robinson.

They also found it frustrating to work within the exacting confines of Moroder's trademark Euro-disco beat, particularly on the synth-heavy "20th Century Foxes." Robinson groans, "I remember the excruciating hours in the studio trying to get Barry to play on two and four. It was almost impossible to make Angel into a disco band."

R.I.P. original Angel bassist Mickey 
Jones, who died in 2009 after a long
 battle with cancer.
But when Foxes failed at the box office, it didn't seem to matter. Bogart had been diagnosed with cancer (he passed away in 1982), Casablanca was sold to Polygram, and Angel splintered. Why couldn't they, like Kiss, just switch to the new label and carry on?

For one thing, explains Robinson, "Kiss were already doing well on their own, but Angel were not yet weaned from the record company. The band had been built up to be completely dependent on Neil Bogart. We were dependent on him for our success and for our future. When Neil died, it was the death of Angel."

But there was more. "We had been used to getting a certain amount of money as an advance for each album," points out Robinson, "and Polygram was not willing to meet the same figure. So, we decided we would strike out and tell Polygram to take a leap!"

DiMino fills in the inevitable outcome: "Polygram wouldn't let us out of our contract, so we went through about a year of litigation where we couldn't play, couldn't tour, couldn't do anything. We recorded some stuff, but it was never released."

Deep in debt and unable to tour, Angel drifted apart. (Robinson notes that their contracts were used for a lesson in Entertainment Law at USC: "What can happen when a record company is willing to invest huge amounts of money to break a group. How commitments can be structured so that a band will be constantly in debt.")

Kerrang reports on Gregg Giuffria's (short-lived) revival of Angel in 1984 
Robinson quit in the summer of 1980. He later joined White Lion but left soon after the group recorded its debut LP and eventually sued them over songwriting credits and royalties. By 1981, both Meadows and DiMino were gone (although DiMino once again teamed up with Giorgio Moroder for the Flashdance soundtrack). Future Toto vocalist Fergie Frederiksen replaced DiMino for a short while, but within months Giuffria had also walked away.

"It wasn't Angel anymore," states Robinson.

* * *

Robinson possesses a tape with several unreleased songs recorded in Atlanta during the band's final tour that are "in line with the stuff on Sinful although there's a couple of harder-edged tunes." And DiMino says some footage for the rumored film Angel Live At Midnight actually does exist. However, he adds, "I'm sure they never even finished editing it. It's in a vault somewhere."

Tuesday, 1 May 2018

Bob Gruen: An Interview With The Man Who Snapped Your Favorite Rock Pics

Originally published in American Music Press, March 1994
All photos are used with permission. 

John Lennon — Walls And Bridges 2005 CD reissue
Photo: Bob Gruen
Interview by Devorah Ostrov

In the 1970s, the name Bob Gruen and the term "rock photography" were synonymous. He was a regular contributor to Creem and Rolling Stone, and his photographs graced (among other LPs) Kiss' Dressed To Kill, the New York Dolls' Too Much Too Soon, John Lennon's Walls And Bridges, and Elton John's Madman Across The Water.

But most of us know him for his prodigious contributions to Rock Scene magazine, where each issue featured dozens of his on-and-offstage photos. Of his colleague, editor Richard Robinson once remarked: "The man who has done the most for Rock Scene's pic collection is no doubt Bob Gruen who always seems to be on the spot when the action is taking place."

Whether it was Aerosmith at Madison Square Garden or the Ramones at CBGB's, a backstage party with David Bowie or a game of pinball with David Johansen, Kiss' 1978 tour of Japan or the Rolling Stones' 1975 tour of America, the Bay City Rollers or Led Zeppelin — Gruen was there to chronicle it.

The New York-born photographer, now in his forties, has recently published a series of photo books under the heading Bob Gruen Works (Jam Books). Individual titles include The Sex Pistols: Chaos, Led Zeppelin, John Lennon, and The Rolling Stones: Featuring Keith Richards. He is currently working on a new, deluxe edition of John Lennon photographs for Genesis Books.

* * *

The Clash, MA — 1979
Photo: Bob Gruen
























AMP: When did you first become interested in photography?

Bob Gruen: Photography was my mom's hobby. When I was too young and too little to go outside, she would take me into the darkroom with her. I've been involved with it since then.

AMP: Did she teach you photography?

Bob: She taught me what she knew, and then I pretty much taught myself after that. I never went to school for photography.

AMP: Do you remember your first camera?

Bob: The first one I owned was a Brownie Hawkeye. It was an early version of the simple point-and-shoot.

AMP: What was your first published photo?

Bob: It was a picture of a fire published in a local Long Island newspaper. And I used to take pictures for the school newspaper — football pictures, sports...

AMP: And when did you first discover rock 'n' roll?

Bob: In the '50s, when it was invented.

AMP: Listening to Elvis on the radio?

Bob: Even before Elvis... Bill Haley. I think the first record I bought was "The Terror of Highway 101," but I forget who it was by.

AMP: At what point did you figure out that you could combine rock 'n' roll and photography into a career?

Bob: I don't know if I figured it out, so much as just did it. After high school, my friends and I were all living together in the City. They were forming bands, and I was always taking pictures of everything. Then when my friend's band Glitterhouse got signed, which was like in '68 or so, I met the people at Atlantic Records and started taking pictures of other bands for them. I shot a Bee Gees' party for Atlantic, and that worked out really well. And then they hired me to photograph Tommy James and the Shondells. One thing just led to another. Back then, the idea of establishing a career wasn't quite as conscious a choice as it would be today. Back then, there was no career of rock photography. There were no rock 'n' roll magazines. There was no Rolling Stone magazine yet.

AMP: When you were taking photos for Atlantic, where were the pictures going?

Bob: There were some magazines... trade magazines like Billboard and Cash Box, and that's what the record companies would hire you for. And there was Hit Parader and 16 magazine.

AMP: What was your first major assignment?

Bob: Around 1970/71, I did a really great picture of Ike and Tina Turner and then went on the road with them. Ike used to pay me to make videotapes of the shows. It was a lot of fun. I mean, it was kind of a wild show and the cast of characters was pretty unusual.

John Lennon, NYC — 1974
Photo: Bob Gruen
AMP: I first became aware of your work through Rock Scene. Were you the main photographer from issue #1?

Bob: No, but I pretty quickly became a big part of it. Towards the end, about half of every issue was mine.

AMP: How did you become connected with the magazine?

Bob: I met... I'm not exactly sure who introduced us, but I met [editors] Richard and Lisa Robinson, and Lenny Kaye, and [photographer] Leee Childers, and [journalist] Lillian Roxon. We used to have a lot of fun! We'd go to all the press parties. In the '70s, there were a lot more press parties than there are now. Sometimes there'd be two or three a day; you'd have hors d'oeuvres at one, a main course at another, and coffee and dessert at a third! And each one would have a band playing or getting a gold record or something promotional going on. We started making stories out of these parties — photo stories. We'd put in photos of the manager, the publicist, the agent, the lawyer, the girlfriend... If I went on tour, like later when I was touring with the Sex Pistols or the Clash, we would run a two- or three-page story with maybe five or six pictures on a page. We'd show the band onstage, backstage tuning up, sitting in the hotel room, what the bus looked like, what the manager looked like at the party... the whole ambiance of the scene. We were recording the rock scene instead of just the rock star, and people really seemed to like it.

AMP: I loved Rock Scene! Lots of photos, not a lot of words!

Bob: Right, that was what the magazine was about. It was easy to read, it was funny, and yet it was very informative.

AMP: I know that everyone on the staff was involved in other major projects — like Lenny was playing guitar with the Patti Smith Group. How were you guys able to produce a quality magazine on a regular basis? And what possessed you to try?

Bob: It was sort of a hobby for all of us, a way to have fun while we were making money on other levels. The magazine came out three or four times a year, and I would put things aside. If I was taking pictures at a party, the record company might take one or two shots, and I would save the other pictures for Rock Scene. But the magazine was a labor of love; we never made any money doing it, which is why it finally folded. It wasn't a magazine with an office; we didn't have any advertising staff. The only staff was... Every two or three months, Richard and Lenny would get together and collect all the pictures, lay 'em out, and write funny captions for them. And in between, Lisa would organize the assignments.

AMP: Tell me about your work with Elephant's Memory. I know you were good friends with John Lennon and Yoko Ono.

Bob: I had been working with a number of different groups — Elton John, Ike and Tina Turner... And that led to my being in a book called Rock Photography. Henry Edwards, who interviewed me for the bio section of the book, told me he was interviewing John Lennon the following week. He asked if I would come and take photos of John and Yoko and the Elephants for him. I had to wait around until the end of the night, but I did do a picture of John and Yoko and the Elephants. It turned out that I was the only one who had pictures of them in the studio together, and they wanted to use my photo on the album cover. I met with John and Yoko, that's when we first started talking and getting to know each other. Through that, I met their managers Leber-Krebs and Tony Machine, who was working in their office. Tony said, "Ya gotta come down and see this other band that Leber-Krebs manages."

Kiss, NYC — 1974
Photo: Bob Gruen






























AMP: And that was the New York Dolls! I've heard that it took several attempts before you actually saw the Dolls perform.

Bob: The first time I went to a Dolls' show... Tony told me to go to the Mercer Arts Center. I remember being there for about 20 minutes when I saw a guy I knew wearing eyeliner. I totally freaked and ran out the door. Tony told me to go back a second time, "It's okay." So, I went back. While I was waiting for the band to come on, I saw some wild guys wearing makeup, but I also saw some cute girls wearing not very much. That got me interested and I stayed around for a while, but I still didn't see the band. The third time I went, I saw people going in and out of a side door. I thought it was the bathroom. I walked in, and there were the Dolls onstage! They were completely surrounded by the audience. There was a wall of people in front of them. There was a mass of people standing on the stage. It was complete chaos! And it was incredibly funny and exciting!

AMP: You went on to become the Dolls' main photographer. How did you develop that relationship?

Bob: We worked well together. I understood what they were doing, and they liked what I was doing. The same thing with John and Yoko. And I did my job well. I didn't interfere, didn't push for too much, just did my job and had a good time with them.

AMP: I want to ask you about Looking For A Kiss, the video you made of the Dolls. Why was it never released commercially?

Bob: Because the management and the band and everybody had something to say, and everyone wanted a certain percentage. Before there was ever any actual offer of money for the video, there were so many discussions of how it was gonna be split up, that it never happened. But just recently, there's been some developments — Guns N' Roses do a Dolls' track ["Human Being"] on their new album, and Polygram is reissuing the CDs. So, they may be interested in the video. I hope we can finally get it released.

AMP: When did you first photograph the Ramones?

Bob: Their manager, Danny Fields, had organized a showcase in a loft. I think it was on 16th or 18th Street. And he had a band there with a logo behind them that said: "The Ramones." They played, I think, 18 songs in 12 minutes or 12 songs in 18 minutes. Something incredibly fast. And when it was over, we went, "What the HELL was that?" But they kind of grew on everybody.

AMP: And you took photos of Iggy Pop the first time the Stooges played New York.

Bob: At the Electric Circus. There was a photo... Iggy had played at a festival in Ohio or somewhere, where the audience was packed so close to the stage that he literally walked off the stage, and there was this picture of the audience holding him in the air. He tried to step off the stage at the Electric Circus, and everybody jumped out of the way. He landed about six feet down on the ground!

AMP: Of all the photos you've taken, which are you most proud of?

Bob: I like the photo of John Lennon in front of the Statue of Liberty; a multiple-exposure picture of Tina Turner that really shows the kind of energy and excitement that she puts into a show; and a picture of Chuck Berry kissing his guitar — I like the composition and the rock 'n' roll feeling of that one.

AMP: What about your favorite assignments?

The New York Dolls, CA — 1973
Photo: Bob Gruen
Bob: Working with John and Yoko at Madison Square Garden was probably the highlight of my career. Standing next to John while he was playing "Imagine" was probably the most exciting thing I ever did. I remember when I was onstage with the Who in Florida, that was exciting! Traveling to Los Angeles with the New York Dolls was very exciting. Going on the road for a few dates with Alice Cooper...

AMP: And what about the worst assignments?

Bob: I don't like to get into that. For years I didn't have an answer when someone would ask, "What's the worst group you've ever worked with?" And then I worked with one guy who was such a major schmuck I finally had an answer. But I don't like to publicize him because he was such a drag.

AMP: Let's talk about some of the other major bands you toured with in the '70s. The Bay City Rollers...

Bob: They were very exciting and very young. I mean, I'd traveled with people like the Allman Bros. and Alice Cooper, which were hard-drinking, hard-partying crews. The Bay City Rollers, when they would have a strong drink, it was a milkshake! That was the excitement of the day — they would get milkshakes and hamburgers from McDonald's and have a pillow fight. But they were a good, tight band. And although it was at a pre-pubescent level, they were really sexy as far as the kids were concerned.

AMP: Kiss...

Bob: They were an unusual group to work with because they were only Kiss from ten minutes before they went onstage until the end of the show. Kiss was like a superhero costume. After the show, Kiss didn't exist anymore. They went back to their secret identities.

AMP: Did you ever photograph them without the makeup?

Bob: I could have if I'd wanted to sneak around and not have a job. I remember the first Kiss show I photographed... It was natural for me to go backstage and take pictures of the band in the dressing room. Bill Aucoin [Kiss' manager] said, "We're not having any pictures of them without makeup." I just said, "Oh, okay." And I worked with them for ten years after that. If someone tells me, "We don't want a picture," I don't sneak around. I don't try to expose things that people don't want seen. I try to take pictures of people looking like what they want to look like, showing the sides that they want to show. I don't invade people's privacy.

AMP: Was it your idea to put Kiss in suits for the cover of Dressed To Kill?

Bob: Yes, it was part of a two-page photo cartoon in Rock Scene. That's how it came about. Gene [Simmons] is actually wearing one of my suits!

AMP: The Clash...

Bob: They were great to work with. They were my favorite band!

AMP: More so than the Dolls?

Bob: Well... yes and no. In different ways. The Dolls were certainly the best-looking band, the easiest to photograph. But the Clash were a great-looking band and very committed politically and socially. They were very serious about what they were doing and also having a lot of fun.

Tina Turner, NYC — 1970
Photo: Bob Gruen
AMP: I remember seeing your photos of the early Clash in Rock Scene. Did you go to England specifically to photograph them?

Bob: No, I had made some money with the Bay City Rollers and my son was living in Paris. He was one- or two-years-old at the time, so I went to visit him. And then I went to England. The only phone number I had was Malcolm McLaren's; I'd met him when he was working with the Dolls. He took me to a club called Louise where I met the Sex Pistols, the Clash, Siouxie and the Banshees, Billy Idol... and a lot of other musicians who at that point were just kids wishing they were in bands. The pictures were printed in Rock Scene. It was new, way before something like Rolling Stone would recognize it. I think the first time Rolling Stone mentioned the Sex Pistols was when they were already a major group and were on the cover.

AMP: Okay... the Sex Pistols. You were with them for the entire American tour. What was it like?

Bob: The shows were great! That they were drawing such crowds — such an eclectic group of people — and that there was such tension was interesting. But after having traveled with Ike and Tina Turner, and the New York Dolls, and Alice Cooper... To me, they weren't that unusual. They were just a bunch of wild, crazy guys — and I'd seen that already. Which is maybe partly why I was there. I was able to do it as a job and not be overwhelmed by it.

AMP: Is it true that Sid Vicious almost knifed you for your boots while you were asleep on the tour bus?

Bob: That's what they tell me.

AMP: I've noticed that in most of your photos, as opposed to say those of Annie Leibovitz, the musicians aren't posing for the camera. Is that a conscious decision on your part?

Bob: I try not to have any preconceived ideas about what I'm going to photograph. I generally let the pictures evolve from what the person is doing naturally. And rather than giving instructions or posing people, I let them move on their own. I have a way of perceiving what they think they look like, what they think they act like, and I photograph that.

AMP: In the early '80s, record companies began restricting photographers to shooting only the first three songs of a band's set. How did that change live concert photography?

Bob: It changed everything. You see, merchandising had become a problem. People were bootlegging merchandise from bands, and for some reason, they thought if they limited the amount of time a photographer had in front of the stage, they could limit the bootlegging. Which hasn't happened at all. No bootlegger I ever met has bought a picture from a photographer. They get a free publicity photo from the record company, or they use the album cover to make T-shirts.
     But the three-song limit really changed things a lot. When a band first hits the stage, they're running all over the place trying to get everybody's attention. They don't really have a focus yet. About the fourth or fifth song, it comes together — they do their power-ballad or something, and you get some decent lighting. But by that time nowadays, the photographer is gone. Most of the photographers I know don't feel they're doing a good job. It's almost impossible to come out with something artistic. I don't even try to get permission anymore; it's not worth it. If it's something special and I have access to the show, I'll do it — like with Keith Richards. Last winter, I shot his whole show and I did a really nice job. And there are certain friends I still work with. Two weeks ago, I saw Debbie Harry in London at the Hammersmith and I took some pictures.

AMP: So, you're no longer actively photographing bands?

Bob: I still take pictures all the time, but lately my life has become much more business-oriented. I'm on the phone a lot making arrangements to sell the old photos. Nowadays, I get paid more for selling a print than I got paid for taking it in the first place. I'm doing some art gallery shows and limited-edition sets of the old pictures. But I do like to take new pictures. I like working with new bands more than the big, established groups. It's easier to work with musicians than publicists and lawyers. I'm working with D Generation. They're the first band I've liked since the Clash!

The Sex Pistols, Luxembourg — 1977
Photo: Bob Gruen

























AMP: On the subject of money... As one of the top rock photographers in the '70s, what were you earning?

Bob: Photographers weren't highly paid. Forget Rock Scene; that was just a labor of love. Creem would pay $35 for a picture, $50 for a full-page. German and Japanese magazines paid a bit more. So, I'd have to sell my photos to five or six different magazines in order to make a living. People think a photographer gets into a show for free, but by the time I shoot two or three rolls of color and a couple rolls of black and white... with processing, I'm spending over $100! I spend all that money and come out with one or two shots that I might be able to sell to a magazine. If Creem used five or six pictures, that would basically pay the expenses of being at the show. Then I'd have to sell some pictures to a German magazine and a Japanese magazine, and an English newspaper — and then I might start to turn a profit. I never made a lot of money. In my field, I'm successful because I'm driving a used car. Most rock photographers don't even have a car!

AMP: Tell me about your latest project. I understand you're working on a second book of John Lennon photos.

Bob: I'm doing a new John Lennon book with an English publisher. It will be a deluxe, limited-edition, leather-bound box set. Someday I hope to do a book on all the pictures I've done, the story of rock photography and how it was for me, the story of Rock Scene. I'd like to do a book on that.

AMP: A couple of quick technical questions before we wrap it up... What model camera do you prefer?

Bob: I used Nikons in the early '70s, and in the mid-'70s I traded those in for Olympus cameras. And I just recently changed to the Canon EOS System, which I think is fantastic.

AMP: What about film?

Bob: Generally, just Tri-X. I used to use Ektachrome for color, but nowadays I use Kodachrome.

AMP: What's in your camera bag right now?

Bob: Two Canon EOS1 cameras, a 50mm lens and a 10mm lens, a 2880mm zoom, two flashes, a Quantum turbo battery, a couple of extra batteries for the cameras, a Star filter, 15 rolls of film, a plastic raincoat, some samples of my pictures, and a pen.