All photos are used with permission.
 |
John Lennon — Walls and Bridges 2005 CD reissue
Photo: Bob Gruen
|
In the 1970s, the name Bob Gruen and the term "rock photography" were synonymous. He was a regular contributor to Creem and Rolling Stone, and his photographs graced (among other LPs) Kiss' Dressed to Kill, the New York Dolls' Too Much Too Soon, John Lennon's Walls and Bridges, and Elton John's Madman Across the Water.
But most of us know him for his prodigious contributions to Rock Scene magazine, where each issue featured dozens of his on-and-offstage photos. Of his colleague, editor Richard Robinson once remarked: "The man who has done the most for Rock Scene's pic collection is no doubt Bob Gruen who always seems to be on the spot when the action is taking place."
Whether it was Aerosmith at Madison Square Garden or the Ramones at CBGB's, a backstage party with David Bowie or a game of pinball with David Johansen, Kiss' 1978 tour of Japan or the Rolling Stones' 1975 tour of America, the Bay City Rollers or Led Zeppelin — Gruen was there to chronicle it.
The New York-born photographer, now in his forties, has recently published a series of photo books under the heading Bob Gruen Works (Jam Books). Individual titles include The Sex Pistols: Chaos, Led Zeppelin, John Lennon, and The Rolling Stones: Featuring Keith Richards. He is currently working on a new, deluxe edition of John Lennon photographs for Genesis Books.
* * *
 |
The Clash, MA — 1979
Photo: Bob Gruen |
AMP: When did you first become interested in photography?
Bob Gruen: Photography was my mom's hobby. When I was too young and too little to go outside, she would take me into the darkroom with her. I've been involved with it since then.
AMP: Did she teach you photography?
Bob: She taught me what she knew, and then I pretty much taught myself after that. I never went to school for photography.
AMP: Do you remember your first camera?
Bob: The first one I owned was a Brownie Hawkeye. It was an early version of the simple point-and-shoot.
Bob: It was a picture of a fire published in a local Long Island newspaper. And I used to take pictures for the school newspaper — football pictures, sports...
AMP: And when did you first discover rock 'n' roll?
Bob: In the '50s, when it was invented.
AMP: Listening to Elvis on the radio?
Bob: Even before Elvis... Bill Haley. I think the first record I bought was "The Terror of Highway 101," but I forget who it was by.
Bob: I don't know if I figured it out, so much as just did it. After high school, my friends and I were all living together in the City. They were forming bands, and I was always taking pictures of everything. Then when my friend's band Glitterhouse got signed, which was like in '68 or so, I met the people at Atlantic Records and started taking pictures of other bands for them. I shot a Bee Gees' party for Atlantic, and that worked out really well. And then they hired me to photograph Tommy James and the Shondells. One thing just led to another. Back then, the idea of establishing a career wasn't quite as conscious a choice as it would be today. Back then, there was no career of rock photography. There were no rock 'n' roll magazines. There was no Rolling Stone magazine yet.
Bob: There were some magazines... trade magazines like Billboard and Cash Box, and that's what the record companies would hire you for. And there was Hit Parader and 16 magazine.
Bob: Around 1970/71, I did a really great picture of Ike and Tina Turner and then went on the road with them. Ike used to pay me to make videotapes of the shows. It was a lot of fun. I mean, it was kind of a wild show and the cast of characters was pretty unusual.
 |
John Lennon, NYC — 1974
Photo: Bob Gruen
|
Bob: No, but I pretty quickly became a big part of it. Towards the end, about half of every issue was mine.
Bob: I met... I'm not exactly sure who introduced us, but I met [editors] Richard and Lisa Robinson, and Lenny Kaye, and [photographer] Leee Childers, and [journalist] Lillian Roxon. We used to have a lot of fun! We'd go to all the press parties. In the '70s, there were a lot more press parties than there are now. Sometimes there'd be two or three a day; you'd have hors d'oeuvres at one, a main course at another, and coffee and dessert at a third! And each one would have a band playing or getting a gold record or something promotional going on. We started making stories out of these parties — photo stories. We'd put in photos of the manager, the publicist, the agent, the lawyer, the girlfriend... If I went on tour, like later when I was touring with the Sex Pistols or the Clash, we would run a two- or three-page story with maybe five or six pictures on a page. We'd show the band onstage, backstage tuning up, sitting in the hotel room, what the bus looked like, what the manager looked like at the party... the whole ambiance of the scene. We were recording the rock scene instead of just the rock star, and people really seemed to like it.
Bob: Right, that was what the magazine was about. It was easy to read, it was funny, and yet it was very informative.
AMP: Tell me about your work with Elephant's Memory. I know you were good friends with John Lennon and Yoko Ono.
Bob: I had been working with a number of different groups — Elton John, Ike and Tina Turner... And that led to my being in a book called Rock Photography. Henry Edwards, who interviewed me for the bio section of the book, told me he was interviewing John Lennon the following week. He asked if I would come and take photos of John and Yoko and the Elephants for him. I had to wait around until the end of the night, but I did do a picture of John and Yoko and the Elephants. It turned out that I was the only one who had pictures of them in the studio together, and they wanted to use my photo on the album cover. I met with John and Yoko, that's when we first started talking and getting to know each other. Through that, I met their managers Leber-Krebs and Tony Machine, who was working in their office. Tony said, "Ya gotta come down and see this other band that Leber-Krebs manages."
 |
Kiss, NYC — 1974
Photo: Bob Gruen
|
AMP: And that was the New York Dolls! I've heard that it took several attempts before you actually saw the Dolls perform.
Bob: The first time I went to a Dolls' show... Tony told me to go to the Mercer Arts Center. I remember being there for about 20 minutes when I saw a guy I knew wearing eyeliner. I totally freaked and ran out the door. Tony told me to go back a second time, "It's okay." So, I went back. While I was waiting for the band to come on, I saw some wild guys wearing makeup, but I also saw some cute girls wearing not very much. That got me interested and I stayed around for a while, but I still didn't see the band. The third time I went, I saw people going in and out of a side door. I thought it was the bathroom. I walked in, and there were the Dolls onstage! They were completely surrounded by the audience. There was a wall of people in front of them. There was a mass of people standing on the stage. It was complete chaos! And it was incredibly funny and exciting!
AMP: You went on to become the Dolls' main photographer. How did you develop that relationship?
Bob: We worked well together. I understood what they were doing, and they liked what I was doing. The same thing with John and Yoko. And I did my job well. I didn't interfere, didn't push for too much, just did my job and had a good time with them.
AMP: I want to ask you about Looking for a Kiss, the video you made of the Dolls. Why was it never released commercially?
Bob: Because the management and the band and everybody had something to say, and everyone wanted a certain percentage. Before there was ever any actual offer of money for the video, there were so many discussions of how it was gonna be split up, that it never happened. But just recently, there's been some developments — Guns N' Roses do a Dolls' track ["Human Being"] on their new album, and Polygram is reissuing the CDs. So, they may be interested in the video. I hope we can finally get it released.
AMP: When did you first photograph the Ramones?
Bob: Their manager, Danny Fields, had organized a showcase in a loft. I think it was on 16th or 18th Street. And he had a band there with a logo behind them that said: "The Ramones." They played, I think, 18 songs in 12 minutes or 12 songs in 18 minutes. Something incredibly fast. And when it was over, we went, "What the HELL was that?" But they kind of grew on everybody.
AMP: And you took photos of Iggy Pop the first time the Stooges played New York.
Bob: At the Electric Circus. There was a photo... Iggy had played at a festival in Ohio or somewhere, where the audience was packed so close to the stage that he literally walked off the stage, and there was this picture of the audience holding him in the air. He tried to step off the stage at the Electric Circus, and everybody jumped out of the way. He landed about six feet down on the ground!
AMP: Of all the photos you've taken, which are you most proud of?
Bob: I like the photo of John Lennon in front of the Statue of Liberty; a multiple-exposure picture of Tina Turner that really shows the kind of energy and excitement that she puts into a show; and a picture of Chuck Berry kissing his guitar — I like the composition and the rock 'n' roll feeling of that one.
AMP: What about your favorite assignments?
Bob: Working with John and Yoko at Madison Square Garden was probably the highlight of my career. Standing next to John while he was playing "Imagine" was probably the most exciting thing I ever did. I remember when I was onstage with the Who in Florida, that was exciting! Traveling to Los Angeles with the New York Dolls was very exciting. Going on the road for a few dates with Alice Cooper...
AMP: And what about the worst assignments?
Bob: I don't like to get into that. For years I didn't have an answer when someone would ask, "What's the worst group you've ever worked with?" And then I worked with one guy who was such a major schmuck I finally had an answer. But I don't like to publicize him because he was such a drag.
AMP: Let's talk about some of the other major bands you toured with in the '70s. The Bay City Rollers...
Bob: They were very exciting and very young. I mean, I'd traveled with people like the Allman Bros. and Alice Cooper, which were hard-drinking, hard-partying crews. The Bay City Rollers, when they would have a strong drink, it was a milkshake! That was the excitement of the day — they would get milkshakes and hamburgers from McDonald's and have a pillow fight. But they were a good, tight band. And although it was at a pre-pubescent level, they were really sexy as far as the kids were concerned.
AMP: Kiss...
Bob: They were an unusual group to work with because they were only Kiss from ten minutes before they went onstage until the end of the show. Kiss was like a superhero costume. After the show, Kiss didn't exist anymore. They went back to their secret identities.
AMP: Did you ever photograph them without the makeup?
Bob: I could have if I'd wanted to sneak around and not have a job. I remember the first Kiss show I photographed... It was natural for me to go backstage and take pictures of the band in the dressing room. Bill Aucoin [Kiss' manager] said, "We're not having any pictures of them without makeup." I just said, "Oh, okay." And I worked with them for ten years after that. If someone tells me, "We don't want a picture," I don't sneak around. I don't try to expose things that people don't want seen. I try to take pictures of people looking like what they want to look like, showing the sides that they want to show. I don't invade people's privacy.
AMP: Was it your idea to put Kiss in suits for the cover of Dressed to Kill?
Bob: Yes, it was part of a two-page photo cartoon in Rock Scene. That's how it came about. Gene [Simmons] is actually wearing one of my suits!
AMP: The Clash...
Bob: They were great to work with. They were my favorite band!
AMP: More so than the Dolls?
Bob: Well... yes and no. In different ways. The Dolls were certainly the best-looking band, the easiest to photograph. But the Clash were a great-looking band and very committed politically and socially. They were very serious about what they were doing and also having a lot of fun.
AMP: I remember seeing your photos of the early Clash in Rock Scene. Did you go to England specifically to photograph them?
Bob: No, I had made some money with the Bay City Rollers and my son was living in Paris. He was one- or two-years-old at the time, so I went to visit him. And then I went to England. The only phone number I had was Malcolm McLaren's; I'd met him when he was working with the Dolls. He took me to a club called Louise where I met the Sex Pistols, the Clash, Siouxie and the Banshees, Billy Idol... and a lot of other musicians who at that point were just kids wishing they were in bands. The pictures were printed in Rock Scene. It was new, way before something like Rolling Stone would recognize it. I think the first time Rolling Stone mentioned the Sex Pistols was when they were already a major group and were on the cover.
AMP: Okay... the Sex Pistols. You were with them for the entire American tour. What was it like?
Bob: The shows were great! That they were drawing such crowds — such an eclectic group of people — and that there was such tension was interesting. But after having traveled with Ike and Tina Turner, and the New York Dolls, and Alice Cooper... To me, they weren't that unusual. They were just a bunch of wild, crazy guys — and I'd seen that already. Which is maybe partly why I was there. I was able to do it as a job and not be overwhelmed by it.
AMP: Is it true that Sid Vicious almost knifed you for your boots while you were asleep on the tour bus?
Bob: That's what they tell me.
AMP: I've noticed that in most of your photos, as opposed to say those of Annie Leibovitz, the musicians aren't posing for the camera. Is that a conscious decision on your part?
Bob: I try not to have any preconceived ideas about what I'm going to photograph. I generally let the pictures evolve from what the person is doing naturally. And rather than giving instructions or posing people, I let them move on their own. I have a way of perceiving what they think they look like, what they think they act like, and I photograph that.
AMP: In the early '80s, record companies began restricting photographers to shooting only the first three songs of a band's set. How did that change live concert photography?
Bob: It changed everything. You see, merchandising had become a problem. People were bootlegging merchandise from bands, and for some reason, they thought if they limited the amount of time a photographer had in front of the stage, they could limit the bootlegging. Which hasn't happened at all. No bootlegger I ever met has bought a picture from a photographer. They get a free publicity photo from the record company, or they use the album cover to make T-shirts.
But the three-song limit really changed things a lot. When a band first hits the stage, they're running all over the place trying to get everybody's attention. They don't really have a focus yet. About the fourth or fifth song, it comes together — they do their power-ballad or something, and you get some decent lighting. But by that time nowadays, the photographer is gone. Most of the photographers I know don't feel they're doing a good job. It's almost impossible to come out with something artistic. I don't even try to get permission anymore; it's not worth it. If it's something special and I have access to the show, I'll do it — like with Keith Richards. Last winter, I shot his whole show and I did a really nice job. And there are certain friends I still work with. Two weeks ago, I saw Debbie Harry in London at the Hammersmith and I took some pictures.
AMP: So, you're no longer actively photographing bands?
Bob: I still take pictures all the time, but lately my life has become much more business-oriented. I'm on the phone a lot making arrangements to sell the old photos. Nowadays, I get paid more for selling a print than I got paid for taking it in the first place. I'm doing some art gallery shows and limited-edition sets of the old pictures. But I do like to take new pictures. I like working with new bands more than the big, established groups. It's easier to work with musicians than publicists and lawyers. I'm working with D-Generation. They're the first band I've liked since the Clash!
Bob: The first time I went to a Dolls' show... Tony told me to go to the Mercer Arts Center. I remember being there for about 20 minutes when I saw a guy I knew wearing eyeliner. I totally freaked and ran out the door. Tony told me to go back a second time, "It's okay." So, I went back. While I was waiting for the band to come on, I saw some wild guys wearing makeup, but I also saw some cute girls wearing not very much. That got me interested and I stayed around for a while, but I still didn't see the band. The third time I went, I saw people going in and out of a side door. I thought it was the bathroom. I walked in, and there were the Dolls onstage! They were completely surrounded by the audience. There was a wall of people in front of them. There was a mass of people standing on the stage. It was complete chaos! And it was incredibly funny and exciting!
AMP: You went on to become the Dolls' main photographer. How did you develop that relationship?
Bob: We worked well together. I understood what they were doing, and they liked what I was doing. The same thing with John and Yoko. And I did my job well. I didn't interfere, didn't push for too much, just did my job and had a good time with them.
Bob: Because the management and the band and everybody had something to say, and everyone wanted a certain percentage. Before there was ever any actual offer of money for the video, there were so many discussions of how it was gonna be split up, that it never happened. But just recently, there's been some developments — Guns N' Roses do a Dolls' track ["Human Being"] on their new album, and Polygram is reissuing the CDs. So, they may be interested in the video. I hope we can finally get it released.
AMP: When did you first photograph the Ramones?
Bob: Their manager, Danny Fields, had organized a showcase in a loft. I think it was on 16th or 18th Street. And he had a band there with a logo behind them that said: "The Ramones." They played, I think, 18 songs in 12 minutes or 12 songs in 18 minutes. Something incredibly fast. And when it was over, we went, "What the HELL was that?" But they kind of grew on everybody.
AMP: And you took photos of Iggy Pop the first time the Stooges played New York.
AMP: Of all the photos you've taken, which are you most proud of?
Bob: I like the photo of John Lennon in front of the Statue of Liberty; a multiple-exposure picture of Tina Turner that really shows the kind of energy and excitement that she puts into a show; and a picture of Chuck Berry kissing his guitar — I like the composition and the rock 'n' roll feeling of that one.
AMP: What about your favorite assignments?
 |
The New York Dolls, CA — 1973
Photo: Bob Gruen
|
AMP: And what about the worst assignments?
Bob: I don't like to get into that. For years I didn't have an answer when someone would ask, "What's the worst group you've ever worked with?" And then I worked with one guy who was such a major schmuck I finally had an answer. But I don't like to publicize him because he was such a drag.
AMP: Let's talk about some of the other major bands you toured with in the '70s. The Bay City Rollers...
Bob: They were very exciting and very young. I mean, I'd traveled with people like the Allman Bros. and Alice Cooper, which were hard-drinking, hard-partying crews. The Bay City Rollers, when they would have a strong drink, it was a milkshake! That was the excitement of the day — they would get milkshakes and hamburgers from McDonald's and have a pillow fight. But they were a good, tight band. And although it was at a pre-pubescent level, they were really sexy as far as the kids were concerned.
Bob: They were an unusual group to work with because they were only Kiss from ten minutes before they went onstage until the end of the show. Kiss was like a superhero costume. After the show, Kiss didn't exist anymore. They went back to their secret identities.
AMP: Did you ever photograph them without the makeup?
Bob: I could have if I'd wanted to sneak around and not have a job. I remember the first Kiss show I photographed... It was natural for me to go backstage and take pictures of the band in the dressing room. Bill Aucoin [Kiss' manager] said, "We're not having any pictures of them without makeup." I just said, "Oh, okay." And I worked with them for ten years after that. If someone tells me, "We don't want a picture," I don't sneak around. I don't try to expose things that people don't want seen. I try to take pictures of people looking like what they want to look like, showing the sides that they want to show. I don't invade people's privacy.
AMP: Was it your idea to put Kiss in suits for the cover of Dressed to Kill?
Bob: Yes, it was part of a two-page photo cartoon in Rock Scene. That's how it came about. Gene [Simmons] is actually wearing one of my suits!
AMP: The Clash...
Bob: They were great to work with. They were my favorite band!
AMP: More so than the Dolls?
Bob: Well... yes and no. In different ways. The Dolls were certainly the best-looking band, the easiest to photograph. But the Clash were a great-looking band and very committed politically and socially. They were very serious about what they were doing and also having a lot of fun.
 |
Tina Turner, NYC — 1970
Photo: Bob Gruen
|
Bob: No, I had made some money with the Bay City Rollers and my son was living in Paris. He was one- or two-years-old at the time, so I went to visit him. And then I went to England. The only phone number I had was Malcolm McLaren's; I'd met him when he was working with the Dolls. He took me to a club called Louise where I met the Sex Pistols, the Clash, Siouxie and the Banshees, Billy Idol... and a lot of other musicians who at that point were just kids wishing they were in bands. The pictures were printed in Rock Scene. It was new, way before something like Rolling Stone would recognize it. I think the first time Rolling Stone mentioned the Sex Pistols was when they were already a major group and were on the cover.
AMP: Okay... the Sex Pistols. You were with them for the entire American tour. What was it like?
Bob: The shows were great! That they were drawing such crowds — such an eclectic group of people — and that there was such tension was interesting. But after having traveled with Ike and Tina Turner, and the New York Dolls, and Alice Cooper... To me, they weren't that unusual. They were just a bunch of wild, crazy guys — and I'd seen that already. Which is maybe partly why I was there. I was able to do it as a job and not be overwhelmed by it.
Bob: That's what they tell me.
AMP: In the early '80s, record companies began restricting photographers to shooting only the first three songs of a band's set. How did that change live concert photography?
Bob: It changed everything. You see, merchandising had become a problem. People were bootlegging merchandise from bands, and for some reason, they thought if they limited the amount of time a photographer had in front of the stage, they could limit the bootlegging. Which hasn't happened at all. No bootlegger I ever met has bought a picture from a photographer. They get a free publicity photo from the record company, or they use the album cover to make T-shirts.
But the three-song limit really changed things a lot. When a band first hits the stage, they're running all over the place trying to get everybody's attention. They don't really have a focus yet. About the fourth or fifth song, it comes together — they do their power-ballad or something, and you get some decent lighting. But by that time nowadays, the photographer is gone. Most of the photographers I know don't feel they're doing a good job. It's almost impossible to come out with something artistic. I don't even try to get permission anymore; it's not worth it. If it's something special and I have access to the show, I'll do it — like with Keith Richards. Last winter, I shot his whole show and I did a really nice job. And there are certain friends I still work with. Two weeks ago, I saw Debbie Harry in London at the Hammersmith and I took some pictures.
Bob: I still take pictures all the time, but lately my life has become much more business-oriented. I'm on the phone a lot making arrangements to sell the old photos. Nowadays, I get paid more for selling a print than I got paid for taking it in the first place. I'm doing some art gallery shows and limited-edition sets of the old pictures. But I do like to take new pictures. I like working with new bands more than the big, established groups. It's easier to work with musicians than publicists and lawyers. I'm working with D-Generation. They're the first band I've liked since the Clash!
 |
The Sex Pistols, Luxembourg — 1977
Photo: Bob Gruen
|
AMP: On the subject of money... As one of the top rock photographers in the '70s, what were you earning?
Bob: Photographers weren't highly paid. Forget Rock Scene; that was just a labor of love. Creem would pay $35 for a picture, $50 for a full-page. German and Japanese magazines paid a bit more. So, I'd have to sell my photos to five or six different magazines in order to make a living. People think a photographer gets into a show for free, but by the time I shoot two or three rolls of color and a couple rolls of black and white... with processing, I'm spending over $100! I spend all that money and come out with one or two shots that I might be able to sell to a magazine. If Creem used five or six pictures, that would basically pay the expenses of being at the show. Then I'd have to sell some pictures to a German magazine and a Japanese magazine, and an English newspaper — and then I might start to turn a profit. I never made a lot of money. In my field, I'm successful because I'm driving a used car. Most rock photographers don't even have a car!
Bob: I'm doing a new John Lennon book with an English publisher. It will be a deluxe, limited-edition, leather-bound box set. Someday I hope to do a book on all the pictures I've done, the story of rock photography and how it was for me, the story of Rock Scene. I'd like to do a book on that.
AMP: A couple of quick technical questions before we wrap it up... What model camera do you prefer?
Bob: I used Nikons in the early '70s, and in the mid-'70s I traded those in for Olympus cameras. And I just recently changed to the Canon EOS System, which I think is fantastic.
AMP: What about film?
Bob: Generally, just Tri-X. I used to use Ektachrome for color, but nowadays I use Kodachrome.
AMP: What's in your camera bag right now?
Bob: Two Canon EOS1 cameras, a 50mm lens and a 10mm lens, a 2880mm zoom, two flashes, a Quantum turbo battery, a couple of extra batteries for the cameras, a Star filter, 15 rolls of film, a plastic raincoat, some samples of my pictures, and a pen.
Bob: Photographers weren't highly paid. Forget Rock Scene; that was just a labor of love. Creem would pay $35 for a picture, $50 for a full-page. German and Japanese magazines paid a bit more. So, I'd have to sell my photos to five or six different magazines in order to make a living. People think a photographer gets into a show for free, but by the time I shoot two or three rolls of color and a couple rolls of black and white... with processing, I'm spending over $100! I spend all that money and come out with one or two shots that I might be able to sell to a magazine. If Creem used five or six pictures, that would basically pay the expenses of being at the show. Then I'd have to sell some pictures to a German magazine and a Japanese magazine, and an English newspaper — and then I might start to turn a profit. I never made a lot of money. In my field, I'm successful because I'm driving a used car. Most rock photographers don't even have a car!
AMP: Tell me about your latest project. I understand you're working on a second book of John Lennon photos.
Bob: I'm doing a new John Lennon book with an English publisher. It will be a deluxe, limited-edition, leather-bound box set. Someday I hope to do a book on all the pictures I've done, the story of rock photography and how it was for me, the story of Rock Scene. I'd like to do a book on that.
AMP: A couple of quick technical questions before we wrap it up... What model camera do you prefer?
Bob: I used Nikons in the early '70s, and in the mid-'70s I traded those in for Olympus cameras. And I just recently changed to the Canon EOS System, which I think is fantastic.
AMP: What about film?
Bob: Generally, just Tri-X. I used to use Ektachrome for color, but nowadays I use Kodachrome.
AMP: What's in your camera bag right now?
Bob: Two Canon EOS1 cameras, a 50mm lens and a 10mm lens, a 2880mm zoom, two flashes, a Quantum turbo battery, a couple of extra batteries for the cameras, a Star filter, 15 rolls of film, a plastic raincoat, some samples of my pictures, and a pen.
No comments:
Post a Comment