Def Leppard: Two Punk Rock Fanzine Journalists Meet The Guitarist & Get A Peek At Joe Elliott's Naked Bottom!

Originally published in Idol Worship (September 1980)
Interview by: Devorah Ostrov

Def Leppard around the time of this interview - Pete Willis in the center

(publicity photo)

A picture of Def Leppard in an English music magazine caught my attention. They were wearing black leather jackets and sporting eyeliner; I thought they were kind of cute. And somehow, I convinced not only myself but Idol Worship photographer Vicki Berndt that we should give this "New Wave of British Heavy Metal" thing a try.

Friends reacted with disdain, and in-the-know record salespeople refused to play me their album. Undeterred, Vicki and I attended the Pat Travers/Def Leppard concert at the Oakland Civic Auditorium — where we instantly encountered a solid wall of 6,000 HM diehards, all dressed in jeans and Pat Travers t-shirts.

Me interviewing Pete Willis

Photo: Vicki Berndt (you can see her

in the mirror!)

As if that weren't enough, when we stumbled into the group's dressing room in search of a manager (the nice lady at the box office just handed us backstage passes with our tickets — probably because we looked like aliens from outer space; of course, we took it as a sign from God that an interview was preordained), we found Def Leppard's perfectly permed lead singer Joe Elliott with his spandex pants around his ankles.

With our hands over our eyes, we hurried back out to taunting yet fetchingly British-accented shouts of "I haven't got me trousers on! She saw me bare ass!"

Deciding to wait until after the show to inquire about interview possibilities, we spent a rather distressing few minutes mingling with the crowd while Def Leppard pounded out what sounded like the same song three times around. Then we hid in the bathroom until it was over.

Afterwards, I'm happy to report that we found the manager without seeing any other band member's naked bottoms. And after he made sure to tell us that Def Leppard is "hard rock" and NOT "heavy metal" (apparently, they're quite keen about that distinction, although I don't imagine anyone actually cares), he introduced us to the group's adorable and polite (and most importantly, pants-wearing) guitarist Pete Willis — who looked to be about 15 years old.

* * *

Q: How would you compare the "hard rock" [notice Idol Worship staffers are quick to catch on] scene in England to that of America?

Pete: It's pretty much the same. All the same bands draw the audiences. You have your trend music, like punk rock [quick glances at me and Vicki], but what draws the crowds is AC/DC and Van Halen, like that.

Twenty-five years later, I ran into Def Leppard's
pantless lead singer again. This time, I was with my hubby Mike,
and thankfully, I don't think Joe Elliott remembered me!
Photo: Diane Wade

Q: Could you describe the kind of image you're trying to put across?

Pete: I don't think we're trying to put across a different image. We just try to look good to the audience.

Q: Does the audience give you any trouble because of the way you dress? Most of the bands they like just wear jeans.

Pete: What's the point of wearing jeans when you can dress nice and come off well onstage?

Q: How are you being received in America?

Pete: It's alright. We've had really good audiences. You saw it tonight?  [I nod to indicate "sort of."] That's the way it's been on the tour.

Q: What was that wine you guys were gulping between songs?

Promo poster for On Through The Night,

the debut Def Leppard album we didn't bother

to mention during this interview.

Pete: It's only Joe who drinks it. I don't drink till I'm off stage. It messes me up. I just drink Coke. [He smiles innocently and holds up an empty bottle of Blue Nun.]

Q: What do you listen to at home?

Pete: UFO, Thin Lizzy, AC/DC... I also like jazz-rock, like Stanley Clark and Styx. It's really involved, not just party-time music.

The guys gathered up their stuff and wandered off to see Eddie Money, who was playing elsewhere. Meanwhile, we raided the dressing room for remnants of cold cuts, stale bread and cheese. Fun fact: Hard rock groups eat lots more than punk bands, leaving less food for hungry fanzine journalists!

The Dead Boys: Brand New Band, Same Old Stiv!

Originally published in Idol Worship #4 (1980)
By Devorah Ostrov

The Dead Boys circa 1980 lineup: (L-R) David Quinton, 

George Cabaniss, Stiv Bators, and Frank Secich

Photo: Vicki Berndt

A year ago, it was thought that the Dead Boys were finished. Lead singer Stiv Bators was moving to LA to sing pop, and the rest of the band sort of faded into oblivion.

Watching the newly re-formed Dead Boys climb out of their car in front of San Francisco's Warfield Theater before their slot on Urgh #1, it wasn't hard to see that the previous lineup of scrappy punks was gone forever, having been replaced by nice-looking rock and roll boys. Even Stiv, the only original member left, looked surprisingly clean!

Me & Stiv at Aquarius Records - 1977
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

And even after rolling around in slime for an hour onstage, Stiv proved to be a real swell guy, quick with rude answers to innocent questions...

IW staffer Lindsey: "Do you have a lot of spare time?"

Stiv: "Why? Whatcha got in mind?"

These days the future certainly looks brighter for the Dead Boys. Doing pretty much the same songs with pretty much the same sleazy attitude as the original band, they live up to a reputation that draws new fans and early fans alike to see them.

Life wasn't always this easy though. When the Dead Boys first formed in Cleveland back around 1975, it was tough to find work.

"The Ramones weren't around then or anything," says Stiv. "It was like pre-punk. Back then, you had to dress like an 'English fag glitter band' and play Aerosmith songs."

Determined to get a gig, the group that would become the Dead Boys did just that. Calling themselves Frankenstein, they dressed up like the New York Dolls and played on Halloween for a goof.

The group that would become the Dead Boys is hardly recognizable 
in this photo that Stiv sent to Rock Scene's "New Bands" section.

With hair nearly to their waists and guitarist Cheetah Chrome modeling a zebra-print jacket, they were hardly recognizable in the photo Stiv sent to Rock Scene magazine's "New Bands" section.

But according to Stiv, the glitter gimmick paid off. "We did 'Sonic Reducer' and 'Down in Flames' [both were included on the Dead Boys' first LP] and some people liked the music, so after that, we got to play certain places."

Stiv Bators backstage at the Warfield - 1980

Photo: Vicki Berndt

Legend has it that after two shows as Frankenstein, the group got frustrated and broke up, with Stiv and Cheetah relocating to New York. Being natural loudmouths, they soon talked their way into a gig at CBGB then quickly called the other guys to get the band back together.

Sporting short hair and scruffy clothes, the Dead Boys took on the New York scene with a vengeance. Unfortunately, they found themselves getting lost among all the emerging English and New York punk combos, and the press couldn't decide whether the Dead Boys were an imitation of the Ramones or an American version of the Sex Pistols.

Of course, they were neither.

"We weren't copying the Pistols or the Ramones," asserts Stiv. "What we did was cut our hair short and started dressing up instead of wearing ripped jeans and leather jackets." (Which he insists the Dead Boys were doing prior to the Ramones.)

Stiv adds, "Then the Pistols came out right after that, and they hit the press before we did. That's always been our problem; we always hit the press too late."

They released two albums, but a combination of bad timing and the near-fatal stabbing of drummer Johnny Blitz led to the break-up of the group in 1979. Then, a few months later, it was announced that Stiv was going to LA "to sing pop."

Flyer for Urgh #1 at the Warfield Theatre featuring Magazine,

Pere Ubu, the Members, and the Dead Boys - August 15, 1980

"I went to LA with Cynthia from the B-Girls," he explains. "We were hanging around with Greg Shaw [from Bomp Records]. He heard the tape of 'It's Cold Outside' [initially recorded by the Choir in 1966] and wanted to put it out. I've always liked 'It's Cold Outside.' It's one of my favorite songs."

Stiv continues, "In Bomp magazine it said I was moving to LA to sing pop as a joke. It pissed a lot of people off, and that's what I like to do most!"

The Dead Boys at the Old Waldorf in 1977

Photo: Devorah Ostrov

With renewed tenacity and flair, Stiv is now working at pissing people off even more. A solo album of popish tunes "like the single" is being recorded for Bomp. Several of the new tracks were co-written by current bandmate Frank Secich (aka Jeff Jones/Frankie Fiend). "He wrote all the lyrics and I stole 'em," quips Stiv.

Stiv is also set to star in two B-grade movies. The first is a John Waters' film with Devine (lots of gasps and gee-whizzes from the IW team) in which Stiv plays Bo Bo Bellzinger, leader of a teenage gang. The second is a "sci-fi rock 'n' roll flick," which he describes as being "a lot different than my real lifestyle; we get drunk a lot and get in fights onstage!"

So, what's Stiv's real lifestyle like? "I sit at home and drink warm milk at night while watching Father Knows Best reruns," he smirks. ✥

Circumstantial Evidence: Frank Secich's autobiography (published in 2015 by High Voltage Australia) presents a candid look at the longtime rocker's storied past, including untold tales of his rock 'n' roll journey with Blue Ash, the Dead Boys, Stiv Bators Band, Club Wow, and his current outfit, the Deadbeat Poets.

Filmmaker Danny Garcia has recently completed the first cut of his documentary feature, Stiv: The Life And Times Of A Dead Boy. The film (which incorporates archive footage, photographs, music and interviews with Stiv's friends and fellow musicians) is scheduled for release summer 2018. Garcia's previous rock 'n' roll documentaries include Looking For Johnny, The Rise And Fall Of The Clash, and Sad Vacation: The Last Days Of Sid And Nancy.




* You can read my other interviews with Stiv here:
Lords Of The New Church: Hanging Out On Portobello
Stiv Bators: Two Extraordinarily Candid Interviews

Lords of the New Church: I Catch Up With Stiv & Nicky

It Was 1980! The Specials Were Doing Their First US Tour & We Were Publishing The First Issue Of Idol Worship: An Interview With Sir Horace Gentleman

Originally printed in Idol Worship #1 (May 1980)
Interview by Devorah & Joey

Devorah interviews Sir Horace Gentleman for Idol Worship #1

Photo: Vicki Berndt

The Specials were in the Bay Area awhile back, playing their "special" brand of reggae to packed halls. After we'd attended several of their shows, Sir Horace Gentleman was nice enough to let us interview him following the show at the S.F. Warfield Theater.

IDOL WORSHIP: Did you expect this big of a response in America?

HORACE: Not at all. I was very worried because reggae doesn't seem to have taken off here. I kept imagining that someone would come up to us and say, "It's alright, but your rhythm guitarist is playing a beat behind."

IW: How would you define the type of music you play?

H: It's dance music, based on early Jamaican music, which is SKA.

IW: Is there a large reggae or SKA scene in England?

H: There is now. We just had a number one single in the singles charts!

Chrysalis advert for the debut album

IW: Which one?

H: It's a live EP which was recorded on our last tour, with "Too Much Too Young," "Guns of Navarone," and a medley on the other side.

IW: What size halls do you guys play back in England?

H: On our last tour, it was these size halls [Warfield] and bigger — but without seats in! That was one of our prime considerations, that there would be no seats on the dance floor and that there would be no restrictions as far as age.

IW: Where did you get the band's name from?

H: We used to be called the Automatics, and then the Coventry Automatics, because we heard of a band in London called the Automatics and they had a record deal. We were offered some gigs on tour with the Clash in England in 1978, and the day we were to do the first show, we got a letter from the London Automatics' lawyer saying, "You are not to use the word 'Automatics' in your name or else you will be sued." So, we had like four hours to sort of change the name. We just threw some names around in the van and decided about five miles from the gig that it would be THE SPECIALS.

IW: How long did it take before everyone said, "Hey, this is great!"

H: About March or April of last year, it started to get good. We finally got "Gangsters" released — we released it ourselves, by an organization called Rough Trade.

IW: When did Chrysalis pick up the group?

H: After "Gangsters" was released. We met Rick, who's our manager, and he got our record out to the DJs. In England, there's a late-night show, done by a bloke called John Peel. He plays independent singles and new wave stuff four nights a week, and he played "Gangsters" a hell of a lot! Then it crossed over to the daytime DJs, and then it became one of the DJs "Records of the Week." Then we did some gigs in London and people began to take some interest, and then the record company thing started. Chrysalis was just the best of the bunch. We said, "We want our own label; we want to sign other bands onto this label and we want total control over it." It really got silly towards the end. WEA were ringing us up saying, "This Chrysalis deal, we'll double it." It was bonkers!

IW: How did you decide to do your promotions in black and white?

H: We were blessing the '60s, sort of the mods and skinheads. It's not just the mods and skinheads, but a complete mixture of styles. Black and white was kind of like pop art and op art. All of the mods used to have black and white checks on the handlebars of their scooters, so the black and white checks came in that way. Black and white was very simple. Plus, as far as the LP cover goes, it was cheaper. We could've had a full-color sleeve, but the album would have cost a bit more.

IW: Is it true that you guys don't like the London scene? That you want to stay in Coventry?

H: Yeah. Brad, our drummer, is the only one who lives in London. I tend to get complacent. The reason I don't want to live in London is because one day I looked in the paper and saw I could go to see the Talking Heads at the Hammersmith Palais, the Jam at the Rainbow, the Bodysnatchers at the Windsor Castle, and so on. But I get really complacent. So, we all live in Coventry, where nothing happens. But when something does happen, it's great! It becomes a major event. I like it there. There are people there who know me as a van driver, which was the job I had before I joined the band. And they keep saying, "When are you going to get a decent job?" That keeps your feet on the ground, which I think is important.

IW: What kind of music do you guys like to listen to?

H: When I'm off the road, I listen to anything but reggae, blues, and SKA. No, that's not true. Everyone has very individual tastes. I'm into sort of old Tamla-Motown. I don't know what the other people listen to.

IW: How does the English scene differ from the American scene?

H: The English scene picked up a lot faster. If a band is good, it travels very quickly by word of mouth. London is like the nerve center of England. Perhaps in America, it's split a bit between New York and Los Angeles. I don't know if you'd agree with that or not.

The Specials with SVT at Tresidder Ballroom

Stanford, California - February 15, 1980

IW: Yeah. Have you guys done any TV shows, like Top of the Pops?

H: Yeah. We've done TOTP and the Whistle Test.

IW: Did you hear what happened when they played your record on American Bandstand?

H: "Gangsters"? Someone said it was too punk!

IW: Yeah. Some girl from Texas said, "It's too punk! I can't dance to it."

H: Can't dance to it... That's ridiculous!

IW: That's what we said!

H: That's funny. It makes me laugh.

IW: Are you going to do any American TV shows?

H: There was a rumor that we might do a Saturday Night Live. They want us to do it sometime late in March, but we'll be heavily into recording schedules then, so I don't know about it. Stop asking me serious questions. Ask me some silly questions now!

IW: What's your favorite breakfast food?

H: Peanut butter on toast! Makes me very anti-social to the rest of the band.

IW: What brand of shampoo do you use?

H: The cheapest. Do you have a car? Could you give me a lift back to the hotel?

IW: Sure, but we have to take a bus to get to the car. We can lend you a quarter.

H: Alright, then.

IW: Is it hard for all seven of you to get along on the road?

H: Yeah! No, actually it's nice because if you're fed up with a particular person, you can go talk to someone else. There are three sort of cliques in the band. There's the blacks, the low-life humans, and the sensibles. Blacks are sort of like the marijuana culture. Roddy, although he's white, is a black because he's into the marijuana culture and he's sometimes a low-life human too. I tend to be king of the sensibles, although I have become a bit low-life of late.

IW: Did you get to see Alcatraz?

H: Only briefly. I didn't get to take a boat out to it, which is annoying. I bought some lovely postcards with a view of Alcatraz saying, "Lovely time, wish you were here."

IW: Well, you can go to Trafalgar Square and write us a letter about it, and we'll go to Alcatraz and write you a letter about it. We can exchange tourist t-shirts.

The bus ride to the car - Horace sits with Idol Worshiper Sue

Photo: Vicki Berndt

H: Yeah, awful Beefeater t-shirts! That's one of the nice things about coming out here. I can be a total tourist. The other week I was paddling in the Pacific, and the connotations of me living in England and paddling in the Pacific was like, something tremendous! Although it was freezing, and people thought I was stupid.

IW: Do you enjoy touring?

H: Well, I haven't much choice, have I? Yes, I do! I never thought, two years ago, that I'd be stomping around America. I've always wanted to come to America.

IW: How did you get the name Sir Horace Gentleman?

H: It's like the reggae names. Everyone's got funny names. Brad's name is Prince Rimshot, sometimes.

IW: Where do you guys get your suits?

H: Second-hand stores, mostly. Now some band members have money and have been known to buy full-price suits. I disapprove of that whole-heartedly. The suit I wore tonight, that grey one, cost me six quid — $12. I got some lovely button-down shirts in a Goodwill store the other day for $1.89 each. I bought six! This girl that works at ... was just telling me about that store, but their suits are $40. That's 20 quid!

IW: The thing is, the stuff they have you already own. That's why they stock it, so we can look like our favorite bands!

H: When we started out, we were dressing like our audience, sort of like skinheads. Now that we're getting popular, people are beginning to dress like us.

IW: How did you like working with Elvis Costello on your record?

H: Fine! It was alright.

IW: Are you going to work with him on the second album?

H: No, I don't think so. We're going to use Dave Jordan, who's the engineer on the first album and does our sound onstage.

Chrysalis advert for The Specials appearance on

Saturday Night Live

IW: Are there times you wish you had just stayed a van driver?

H: Sort of the split second before the plane's about to land and sometimes one or two minutes before I go onstage. I get a bit nervous all the time, but that's all. If I can cope with a hangover in Los Angeles, then I'm alright!

IW: What do English people think of Americans? Do they have any stereotypes?

H: Yes, of course, they do! We get the tourists — like the fat bloke with the Bermuda shorts and Hawaiian shirts, three cameras, and a hat. Or else those suits with the massive checks.

IW: Plaid!

H: I suppose you have the stereotyped Englishman — the pinstriped suit, bowler hat and umbrella, going, "Awfully, awfully nice to see you." It works both ways.

IW: Did you do any Midwestern shows?

H: Oklahoma City, Salt Lake City...

IW: How did those go?

H: Oklahoma City was really funny! The Police were meant to do two shows there, but they pulled out of the gig because of Sting's voice and Stuart Copeland's back. So, we ended up doing one show in Oklahoma City — actually, it was in Norman, which is just outside of Oklahoma City in a 600 capacity theater. I was really worried about it being a "redneck" state and the announcer saying, "I'm sorry, all you Police fans. The Police aren't playing, and now here's a band from England that you've never heard of, that doesn't play rock 'n' roll." I was really worried, but we went on and it went great. It was nice getting back to an audience that had never heard of us before, grabbing them by the throat and saying, "You will dance!"

IW: I noticed at Stanford that a lot of people don't know what reggae is, or how to dance to it, but they enjoyed it anyway. Even if it wasn't the punk rock they expected.

H: Yes, they sort of pogo slowly. Dancing to reggae is really fascinating; it's a lot slower... [Here Horace gives us a lesson in skanking.] You've got to see people like Neville and Lynval do it. Reggae is on the second and fourth beat, that's where the bass drum goes and that's how you dance to it.

Full-page Chrysalis advert
Trouser Press magazine - May 1980

IW: How long have you been playing the bass?

H: Do you have a lot of room in your fanzine? I've got quite a nice story. When we were doing those dates at the Music Machine with the Clash, on the last day, I spoke to Paul Simonon, who's quite a shy bloke actually, and he says, "I really like your bass playing. How long have you been playing?" I said, "I've been playing for eight years, but only seriously for the last three years." He turns around and scratches his head and says, "Yeah, I wonder when I'll start taking it seriously." Which was the perfect answer from one of the Clash.

IW: Do you get much time to look around the cities?

H: We had a couple of days off in Los Angeles, and it was really nice. I got to put my feet in Cary Grant's footsteps, and I got to see the Hollywood sign and all that!

IW: Did you go to Disneyland?

H: Yes! It was amazing! We went on Space Mountain and the Pirates of the Caribbean and the Haunted House... It was great!

IW: Did any movie stars come to see your shows in Los Angeles?

H: Randy California from Spirit came on the last night and was seen dancing but was probably drunk. I did get to meet Rod Stewart's bass player...

IW: Was Andy Warhol there when you played New York? [One of the IW editors has an Andy Warhol fetish — Other Ed.]

H: No, but Ian Hunter and Mick Ronson were going to come to the gig in New York, but only if they could stand in the sound booth. We said, "Either you're in there with the punters, or forget it."

Here Horace gathers up his clothes and we all catch the bus back to the car. On the bus, Horace clears up a misunderstanding...

IW: Is it true you guys don't like the Clash? I saw you tearing up the cover of a magazine with a picture of Joe Strummer on it at the record store.

H: NO! NO! That's not true at all! The reason for that was because they were giving them to us for nothing. They had to rip the top off so they could send them back as damaged. Christ, the Clash are great!

Idol Worship #1 featuring the Specials,
the Clash & Madness
(Clash photos by Vicki Berndt)

On the ride to the car, we pass Haight Street, which Horace was excited to see since he was somewhat of a hippie a few years back.

We met up again later at the Mabuhay where Horace, Brad, Terry and Jerry were watching the Go-Go's, who'd opened for them in LA. After advising him against the Mab's fare, Gwen, Spike, Vicki and Sue took the famished bass player to Zim's for a late-night snack.

Everyone laughed as he showed us his Roddy Radiation imitation. (Suck in your cheeks, bend your ears out, and say "Bollocks!") And the wire-rimmed glasses Horace wears offstage are fake! He picked up several pairs in Seattle so he can "look like a professor on a lecture tour rather than a pop star." We also got clued in that one of the Clash is married! It seems that some years ago, a member of the group married a European girl for several hundred pounds so he could buy his first guitar and she could get British citizenship. (When the Clash were here, this story was confirmed by sources close to the group — they're still married legally, but he "hasn't seen her for years.")

Finally, in the early morning hours we dropped Horace off at his hotel to get a bit of rest before his 7am flight, and these IWers headed home with some memories of a very Special night.