Shrapnel: Daniel Rey Recounts The History Of The Group "Punk" Magazine Dubbed "The Brat Patrol."

Originally published in Teenage Kicks #3 (Spring 1999)

By Devorah Ostrov

Shrapnel strike a suitably militaristic pose for this publicity pic.
Photo: Tom Hearn

You might have seen guitarist Daniel Rey's co-writer credit on such Ramones' faves as "Poison Heart," "Pet Sematary," and "I Wanna Live." He's also produced records for the Ramones, the Misfits, White Zombie, Green Apple Quickstep, D Generation, and "a bunch of other stuff" he can't remember. 

However, what initially caught my attention in Punk magazine was his militaristic-styled late-'70s band, Shrapnel. And when I met Rey (aka Rabinowitz) at the recent Thunder Road benefit (where he backed-up Joey Ramone on a handful of songs), he was happy to fill me in on a brief history of the group Punk once dubbed "The Brat Patrol."

"Combat Love" b/w "Hey"
(Salute Records - 1979)

Comprised of a bunch of camo-clad juvenile delinquents, Shrapnel hailed from the 'burbs of New Jersey. "But as soon as we were old enough, we were hanging out in New York," says Rey. 

Along with Rey, the band's teenaged lineup featured Dave Wyndorf (vocals), Philip Caivano (bass), Dave Vogt (guitar), and Dan Clayton (drums).

"The Dictators were one of my favorite bands," Rey declares. "They totally changed our lives. We went to see the Ramones in the summer of '76, the last time they played the Jersey Shore, and Top Ten from the Dictators was there. He was amazed that anyone recognized him! He told us about this place on Bleeker and Bowery called CBGBs. So, we went up there the next weekend. And we never left."

"There was a time in New York..." Rey trails off. "In '76, the Dictators and the Ramones were the two hot bands. Then the Dead Boys came around. Shrapnel used to open for them all the time. We used to open for the Ramones a lot, probably 100 times."

Rey describes Shrapnel's early sound as a "sort of rave-up, militant, MC5 sort of thing. With a little bit of pop thrown in. Real American punk rock 'n' roll."

Shrapnel and their Spidey friend
(Illustration by Frank Miller for Marvel Comics)

The band "conned" Legs McNeil from Punk magazine into managing them, and in issue #14, the 'zine announced: "Next Big Thing — Kid Groups. Kids too young to drink are playing clubs in N.Y.C." And Shrapnel, along with the Blessed and Middle Class, were listed as the best of them all.

In 1979 Shrapnel released the first of two now impossible to find 45s on their own label, Salute Records. Produced by McNeil and Jonathan Paley, the single "Combat Love" b/w "Hey" featured the tag line "Commandos of Rock 'N Roll," underlining the group's B-movie militaristic stance.

Shrapnel's self-titled EP
(Elektra Records - 1984)

In his review of the 45, Punk's music critic Jolly poked fun at McNeil when he wrote: "A good band but they lack that certain something, that certain guiding light, that maybe a director or manager could provide. In the long run, it may be what stands between them and greatness."

In a corresponding write-up, Punk's Assistant Publisher Richard Tucksmith pointed out: "Hey" is a good song. Shrapnel is also good live, in case you're interested. Buy this record so their manager can get some new clothes. But seriously, it's a good record."

That same year, Shrapnel lost Punk's "Best New Group" award to the B-52's, but the magazine's March/April issue featured them in a photo/comic send-up as the Brat Patrol. The concept went something like this:

"The Plot — Shrapnel — the Janitors of Justice, are out to sanitize New Jersey by eradicating their arch enemy — the Unknown Gook — a bald, aging, fanatical flower child, driven mad by excessive banana-peel smoking."

Shrapnel
(photographer unknown)

However, according to Rey, the fun had gone out of the New York punk scene by then. 

When Dead Boys' drummer, Johnny Blitz, was brutally stabbed outside a Lower East Side deli, it was "a turning point for the whole scene," he says. 

"It had been kind of carefree," recalls Rey. "There was a camaraderie, an innocence to it. And the Dead Boys were the hot band. At that moment, they were the greatest band. But they were never the same after that."

"We used to go to the same place to eat after CB's," he notes about the location of the attack. There were only two or three places you could go to back then in the East Village, late at night. And everybody used to end up there after Max's or CB's. I remember that night vividly; the innocence was lost."

Shrapnel played the "Blitz Benefit" at CBGBs, sharing the bill with Blondie and the Dead Boys. Comedian John Belushi guested on drums in Blitz's absence. As Rey remembers it, "Belushi came into the dressing room all coked up, going, 'Who's got drumsticks? Who's got drumsticks?' Our drummer gave him drumsticks."

In 1984 Shrapnel released a five-song EP on Elektra Records that included a strong cover of Gary Glitter's "Didn't Know I Loved You (Till I Saw You Rock-N-Roll)." 

Shrapnel as the "Brat Patrol" - excerpt from Punk's photo/comic. 
(Written by Legs McNeil & Jolly/Photos by Tom Hearn)

But the no-frills cover art didn't picture the guys in their usual army-surplus garb. Instead, it made them look like an airbrushed new wave band.  

Rey simply states that the EP was "bad."

"We kind of got caught up in the '80s new wave thing," he adds. "We used to play these dance clubs... We were young when we got signed, and like most bands, we listened to the label."

Now older and wiser, Rey imparts this piece of wisdom: "When you get signed, and someone from the label tells you to do something, you have to do the exact opposite. That's very important. And then you'll be okay."

Shrapnel broke up "right after we got signed," says Rey. "It was just time, 'yknow."

Shrapnel
(publicity photo)

The Groovie Ghoulies Reflect On Their Low-To-Mid-Profile In This 1997 Interview With Teenage Kicks

Originally published in Teenage Kicks #2 (Fall 1997)
Interview by Devorah Ostrov

Groovie Ghoulies/The Donna's split single (1998)

Teenage Kicks' photographer Sara Brinker took this fab
photo during our interview! 

Every time I see the Groovie Ghoulies, I'm knocked out by how much fun they are!

Lead singer/bassist Kepi is a non-stop bundle of pogoing energy. Guitarist Roach looks beautiful while tossing candy and toys to the crowd. And new drummer Panic (a Chicago native, he was formerly with the Queers, the Riverdales, and Screeching Weasel; he replaced Wendy earlier this year) keeps a fast 'n' furious beat with a big smile on his face!

Formed by Kepi nearly a decade ago, the Sacramento-based band named after a Saturday morning cartoon has developed a fanatical (and in large part teenage!) following. Their hyper poppy/punk tunes owe an obvious debt to the Ramones musically, while Kepi's hook-filled lyrics are populated by horror show heroes like Bigfoot, Pumpkinhead, King Kong, killer computers, a Beast with Five Hands, and Graveyard Girlfriends.

Poster for The Muffs/Chixdiggit/Groovie Ghoulies

show at The Middle East - July 23, 1997

Lookout Records signed the Groovie Ghoulies last year and released the super entertaining World Contact Day LP. The label has also reissued the group's first two albums: Appetite For Adrenochrome (1989) and Born In The Basement (1994).

Their latest offering, Re-Animation Festival, is due to hit record stores in September. But before all that...

An opening slot on the Muffs/ Chixdiggit tour brought them to the Fillmore — where we gave Kepi an adorable toy tambourine, met temporary fourth Ghoulie B-Face (who can usually be found with the Queers), and interviewed the band.

Kepi: B-Face joined us on tour...

Teenage Kicks: He just got onstage and wouldn't go away?

Kepi: Yeah, in Boston. He got onstage and we couldn't get him off.

Teenage Kicks: Since B-Face is playing bass, are you just singing tonight?

Kepi: Yeah... and playing tambourine!

Teenage Kicks: I'd like to go over the group's history. Other interviewers haven't really gotten into it.

Re-Animation Festival (Lookout Records - 1997)

Kepi: Because it's too messy; there are too many ex-Ghoulies.

Teenage Kicks: Were you living in Sacramento when you started the band?

Kepi: I had a Groovie Ghoulies in Sacramento, but it was very short-lived, and it goes way back. The band was pretty much formed in Los Angeles, and Roy McDonald [former drummer for Redd Kross, now with the Muffs] played the first show. It's been going pretty steady since the first album came out, and the singles just prior to that.

Teenage Kicks: What brought you back to Sacramento from Los Angeles?

Kepi: I started going out with Roach. We went to high school together. We were graduates of Roseville High School! And then we started dating again later.

Teenage Kicks: When did you get married?

Kepi & Roach: 1990...

The Groovie Ghoulies at Sin City Swingers Club (perhaps in Norway?)

Teenage Kicks: Roach, did you play guitar before you joined the band?

Roach: I used to play as a kid. Then I didn't play for about five years. The first time I played electric guitar was with the Ghoulies.

Kepi (to Roach): You rock!

Teenage Kicks: There was a big span of time between Appetite For Adrenochrome and Born In The Basement...

The Cramps & Groovie Ghoulies at the

Fillmore in SF - Halloween 1996

Kepi: Five years... There were some singles, something almost every year — a Ramones' tribute ["Pet Semetary"], a Troggs' tribute ["Girl in Black"], and a couple 7" singles. But y'know, it was real low-profile. It's less low-profile now. We're low-to-mid-profile now!

Teenage Kicks: How did your signing with Lookout Records come about? It seems like the perfect label for you guys to be on.

Kepi: All their bands put in a word for us — the Queers, the Smugglers, Pansy Division... They all said, "Sign these guys!" And they did. It's good; they take care of us.

Teenage Kicks: What's the story behind Wendy's departure?

Kepi: We went on tour with the Queers in February or March, and she couldn't do the tour. While we were on that tour, we met Panic. We were trying to plan the rest of our year as far as touring and recording, and she couldn't tour.

Teenage Kicks: Why not?

Kepi: She has a good job; she has a house and a car.

Teenage Kicks: She's a grown-up!

Groovie Ghoulies circa mid-1997 

(publicity photo)

Panic: I don't own any of those things.

Kepi: He was a homeless pedestrian. So we said, "You're in!"

Teenage Kicks: Panic, you used to be in Screeching Weasel and the Riverdales...

Panic: Yeah, but I just became really disgruntled not touring.

B-Face: But now he's gruntled!

Panic: I am really happy to get back on the touring circuit again!

Teenage Kicks: I saw your Halloween show last year with the Cramps...

Roach: That was fun!

Teenage Kicks: I think Lux is from Sacramento.

Kepi: Yeah, he has a degree from Sac State. When we played with them, he said, "Did you know there's a Groovie Ghoulies in LA?" I said, "Yeah, that's me!"

Roach (with Wendy in the background) and Kepi Ghoulie
Photos: Devorah Ostrov

Teenage Kicks: Is Halloween always a big night for you guys?

Kepi: This year we're playing in Holland. It's the start of our European tour. We're playing with the Smugglers and Mr. T Experience.

Teenage Kicks: It's a Lookout package tour!

Kepi: We're touring with Mr. T, and the Smugglers are either just starting a tour or finishing one up. It just so happens we're all in Holland that night. It'll be one big party!

Appetite For Adrenochrome 

(Crimson Corpse Records - 1989)

Teenage Kicks: Where else are you playing in Europe?

Kepi: All I know is Italy.

Teenage Kicks: Is the band well-known in Europe?

Kepi: We're low-to-mid-profile in Europe. The first record sold more over there than it did here. And we have a German single out, and we're going to do an Italian single. So, there's people who know of us.

Teenage Kicks: Out of curiosity, how have you avoided being sued over the group's name?

Kepi: I think we give the cartoon more fame than it had on its own in the last 20 years! And we spell it differently.

Panic: On this tour, some promoters have used their own creativity. We've been called the Groovie Goodies, and just Groovie.

Kepi: If they can't figure out how it's spelled, they can't sue us. "We're the Groovie Goodies! Why are you suing us?"

Lookout tour poster for The Mr. T Experience

and The Groovie Ghoulies

Teenage Kicks: I want to talk about some of the songs you cover — like "Singing the Blues." Black Oak Arkansas and Dave Edmunds both cover it...

Kepi: I know Marty Robbins, but I don't know who else did it.

Teenage Kicks: And you cover Herman Hermits!

Kepi: They're just catchy.

Teenage Kicks: And Neil Diamond, and the Partridge Family, and "She Hangs Out" by the Monkees...

Kepi: Yeah, people ask for that and "Singing the Blues." I hope we can turn them on to some songs like the Cramps do. Like 14-year-olds who are just discovering punk rock — if you can turn them on to the Stones or Neil Diamond or the 13th Floor Elevators...

Teenage Kicks: At least you guys pick songs that are fairly easily tracked down. With the Cramps, you have to do some major research!

Kepi: Yeah, you have to get into the R&B history of some one-armed blues guy who plays in a cardboard box or something.

Panic: I had a big argument with someone who said covers were a waste of time — the songs had already been done, and bands should just write all original material. But it's like, if people didn't cover songs, I wouldn't have found out about anyone, really.

World Contact Day
 (Lookout Records - 1996)

Teenage Kicks: Or if someone you like talks about other bands they like in interviews... That's how I found out about a lot of groups.

Kepi: The Stones did that! The Stones turned me on to a million blues bands.

Teenage Kicks: Mass from Squirt Gun produced your new album, Re-Animation Festival.  Did you know him before that?

Kepi: We'd met him once or twice. Panic knew him. Panic and B-Face have recorded multiple albums with him. He just told Lookout that he wanted to work with us.

Panic: What I like about Mass is, he's real patient with people. And he'll get the best performance that he thinks he can out of you.

Teenage Kicks: I love your cover of Daniel Johnston's "To Go Home" on Re-Animation Festival. I'm not familiar with the original version, but I'll take a wild guess that it doesn't sound like something the Ramones wrote.

Kepi: No, it's shockingly different!

Advert for the 2016 remaster of Born In The Basement

Teenage Kicks: And you do a song called "Maze Effect" by Daniel Janish. Who's that?

Kepi: He's a friend of ours in LA. And we do "If You Need Me"...

Teenage Kicks: The Stones!

Kepi: Yeah... Robert Bateman and Wilson Pickett wrote it. But it's pretty much the Stones' version.

Poster for a Groovie Ghoulies show in Spain

Teenage Kicks: Yet you make everything sound like a Groovie Ghoulies' song!

Panic: When I first heard Born In The Basement, I didn't think about which songs were covers. They really put their own spin on them, which makes it more interesting than just copying a song. It really impressed me.

Teenage Kicks: Are you guys ever gonna run out of monsters to write songs about?

Kepi: No! We have "Chupacabra" on the new record. As long as they keep spotting new monsters...

Teenage Kicks: What is a Chupacabra?

Kepi: It's a Puerto Rican, blood-sucking alien. It attacks goats and other farm animals.

Teenage Kicks: Have you ever seen a monster?

Kepi: I've seen one flying thing, a very fast object in the daytime. It was weird. But we don't have time to look for monsters, unless they happen upon the freeway while we're driving. Actually, there was a Bigfoot sighting in Florida last week, and it ran right into the middle of the road. So... if we're lucky!

Teenage Kicks: I heard that "Graveyard Girlfriend" is gonna be the first single off Re-Animation Festival. That's such a great pop song!

"Graveyard Girlfriend" b/w "Trick or Treat"

and "Devil Town" (Lookout Records - 1997)

Kepi: Thank you. I try to write songs that I want to hear. And y'know, if you do something you like, you play it forever! Like "Beast with Five Hands"... People ask me, "Aren't you getting sick of that?" No! There's no song we do that I'm sick of. If you write a song, you should be prepared to be stuck with it. When I write a song, I try to remember: This song's gonna haunt me and I better like it!

Teenage Kicks: I want to ask about the song "Punk Pt. II" [from World Contact Day]. Are you addressing it to Sid Vicious or someone else in particular?

Kepi: For me, it was actually Johnny Thunders and Stiv Bators, but it could be for whoever you miss. That's one of the few songs I've written that's reality-based. I was watching the Swinging Udders and thinking about how many great bands there are now. And I was wishing that these people could still be around to see... If they just could have seen the scene blow up — Rancid and Green Day, y'know. And it's just sad that all my heroes are fucked up or dead.

★ ★ ★

Click here to listen to the Groovie Ghoulies cover of "To Go Home"

from the Re-Animation Festival album.

Marky Ramone: In 1992 I Talked To The Ramones Drummer About "Mondo Bizarro"

Originally published in American Music Press (October 1992)
By Devorah Ostrov

Legend has it that punk rock began on July 4, 1976. On that perfectly patriotic date, the Ramones — formed some two years previously in Forest Hills, NY — made their pivotal UK debut at the Roundhouse in London. And pretty much every Brit kid who went on to form a furiously fast, three-chord band was in the crowd that night. "We had hoped that the kids would see us and feel they could do it too," commented guitarist Johnny Ramone at the time.

The Ramones' Mondo Bizarro tour comes to

Cologne, Germany - December 5, 1992

Sixteen years and more than a dozen albums later, the Ramones are still going strong. The group's latest offering (and their first on Radioactive Records) is called Mondo Bizarro, and it features some of their finest material in a decade.

"It's a good one!" declares drummer Marky Ramone when I call him in New York. "We took our time. We selected the best songs. We practiced them a lot. And this is the end result."

"Poison Heart," the first single release, is a classic sounding pop tune co-written by Daniel Rey and former Ramones' bassist Dee Dee (who left the band in 1989 and took some pains to distance himself from the guys by issuing a solo LP as Dee Dee King).

Surprisingly, Dee Dee also co-wrote (again with Rey) two other songs — "Strength to Endure" and "Main Man" — both sung by his replacement, C.J. So, they don't hate Dee Dee and vice-versa?

"No! No way!" exclaims Marky (who replaced original drummer Tommy Ramone in 1978, after stints with Dust, Wayne County's Back Street Boys, and Richard Hell's Voidoids). "Maybe, in the beginning, there was a little animosity because he left us. But it all worked out. We're still friendly with him; he's still friendly with us. He's a Ramone!"

Marky Ramone - recent publicity photo

Another big surprise is the amount of radio play "Poison Heart" is receiving. While lack of airplay was once the bane of the Ramones' existence, Bay Area station Live 105 (KITS) is spinning the song so often you could actually get sick of it.

"It's weird, right!" laughs Marky. "It's strange because when we came out, we were just a bunch of aliens. There was no one like us, so they were afraid of us. And a lot of radio stations didn't want to play us because we went against the grain. You had your Foreigner, your Journey, your Fleetwood Mac... rock was really soft at that point."

He continues, "Eventually, you had all these bands wearing leather jackets and holes in their pants. They started playing fast songs and, obviously, they were influenced by us. These people admit it. And now, I guess, a lot of people who owe us are saying, 'Maybe it's the Ramones' time.'"

Is he talking about Skid Row covering "Psycho Therapy" on the "B-Side Ourselves" EP?

"And Motorhead did 'Ramones' on their last album. And Guns N' Roses always wear our t-shirts, and they've always said that we're one of their favorite bands. I don't necessarily like or dislike these bands, that's just their way of showing gratitude to us. Now they're playing 'Poison Heart,' which is great. But I hope they recognize the fact that there's other songs on the album that are just as good."

L-R: Joey Ramone, C.J. Ramone, Johnny Ramone & Marky Ramone

Photos from the Mondo Bizarro CD

Marky particularly likes the opening track, "Censorshit." Written by vocalist Joey Ramone, the lyrics reference a certain politician's wife and those irritating P.M.R.C. stickers that alert us to the imagined evil lurking in our favorite records: "Tipper, what's that sticker sticking on my CD?/Is that some kind of warning to protect me?/Freedom of choice needs a stronger, stronger voice/You can stamp out the source, but you can't stop creative thoughts..."

Dust - Marky Ramone (Marc Bell), Kenny Aaronson & Richie Wise

"We feel censorship is very un-American," asserts Marky. "I think a conservative minority is trying to push their view on the majority of the country."

"We were at the Berlin Wall when it came down," he adds. "I chipped away pieces of the wall for myself! There's no more communism in Russia, so why the hell are they gonna have censorship here?"

What does he think about the possibility that Tipper Gore (co-founder of the P.M.R.C. and wife of Bill Clinton's running mate, Al Gore) might soon be in the White House?

"Clinton's opposed to censorship," Marky notes. "When he gets in, he's probably gonna tell her to cool off. But if she screws around during the first four years, he'd better watch out. The [entertainment] industry will go against him and not vote for him in four years. And then he'll lose because the industry has a lot of influence."

Poster for two shows in Mexico City - 1992

Will he be voting for Clinton?

"Yeah, I have to," Marky responds a little reluctantly.

Getting back to Mondo Bizarro, fans of the group's early efforts will enjoy "Heidi is a Headcase," a direct descendant of "Suzy is a Headbanger," as well as the '60s surf-inspired sounds of "Touring" — so reminiscent of Jan and Dean, it could be a cover!

"That's what's so good about that song," observes Marky. "It could be a cover, but it isn't!"

Speaking of covers... Known for their speeded-up interpretations of simplistic pop ditties, another shocker on Mondo Bizarro is their cover of the Doors' "Take It as It Comes." Which is — how do I phrase this properly? — sort of complicated with oodles of keyboards!

How did that happen?

"One day, John said, 'Let's do a Doors' song.' And I said, 'What!?' I didn't wanna do 'Light My Fire.' But when he brought in this obscure album track, I agreed it was a good idea. It wasn't a single, and no one has really heard of it. We just put our style to it, and that's what happened. Very simple."

Have any of the surviving Doors heard their version?

Richard Hell & the Voidoids - featuring Marky Ramone (Marc Bell) 

Photo by Kate Simon (from the "Blank Generation" 45)

"Ray Manzarek… He's flattered that we did it. As a matter of fact, we were gonna have him on keyboards, but he said he doesn't play music anymore. We used some other guy from some other band [Joe McGinty, ex-Psychedelic Furs]."

Marky (in collaboration with a mysterious character called Skinny Bones) also supplies two new numbers: "Anxiety" and "The Job That Ate My Brain." The first is a bit of stressed-out silliness; however, the second is an interesting tale about day-job woes: "Out of bed at 6:15, in a rush and you can't think/Gotta catch the bus and train, I'm in a rush and feelin' insane/I can't take this crazy pace, I've become a mental case/Yeah, this is the job that ate my brain..."

Promo poster for Mondo Bizarro

(Radioactive Records - 1992)

"In this fast-paced society, there's a lot of things that people wanna do," elaborates Marky. "They've got families to raise, they want to relax, they want to play, but they gotta get up and work for some company. They don't have time for themselves. It sucks!"

That last sentiment sounds like Marky is speaking from personal experience. Has he ever held down a day-job?

"I used to mix cement. I used to put up wrought-iron gates... y'know, construction stuff."

When was this?

He briefly falters. "This was before... this was around... after I left the Ramones in '83. For four years, I was doing stuff like that because I didn't wanna be involved with the music business anymore."

I'd been wondering how to bring up his temporary departure from the group (during which he was replaced by Richie Ramone). From what I've read, it wasn't pretty. Creem magazine documented one especially divisive moment: "Johnny is on the phone, obviously agitated, saying things like, 'I'm pissed about this! … If he doesn't wanna do it...!' Turns out that drummer Marky has pulled a walkout with the Toronto date just three days away."

"Me and Dee Dee..." Marky starts to explain, then hesitates. It's clearly still a sensitive subject.

The Ramones

L-R: C.J., Johnny, Marky, and Joey

"He had a drug problem and I had a drinking problem, and it was getting to me. It was winning, y'know. I ended up drunk every day. So, I turned around one day and thought, What's more important? Acting like a jerk and embarrassing myself? Getting up off the floor every morning? Or playing in a band that I like? So, I just stopped. I went away for a while and did straight jobs just to get back to some other kind of reality."

What made him finally return to the fold?

"Well... John, ah... called me one day..." says Marky, still choosing his words carefully. "Richie wasn't working out, and he asked me to come back in the band. And that was it."

Marky Ramone on the cover of Modern Drummer

February 2014

Spin magazine recently acknowledged the Ramones' impact by naming them one of the most significant bands in rock history (the list of seven also includes Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and the Sex Pistols).

According to Spin: "No group in the last eighteen years has been more important or more influential, including the Sex Pistols (who probably couldn't have existed without the Ramones). There's a real straight line from the Ramones to Nirvana, for anyone who'd care to trace it."

How did that make them feel?

"We were very flattered," states Marky.

The Ramones are an American institution, I point out.

"That's what I hear, but I don't know what it means. I'd just like to sell a few more copies of our new album. Y'know what I mean? That would be nice."


* You can read my other interviews with the Ramones here:
devorahostrov.blogspot.com/2019/02/the-ramones-turn-20-release-all-covers
devorahostrov.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-ramones-this-january-1978-interview
devorahostrov.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-last-time-i-talked-to-joey-ramone

D Generation: We Put Howie On The Cover Of "Teenage Kicks" #1 And I Interviewed Jesse & Richard About "No Lunch"!

Originally published in Teenage Kicks #1 (Summer 1997)

By Devorah Ostrov

D Generation (Columbia Records publicity photo by John Falls)

L-R: Howie Pyro, Danny Sage, Jessie Malin, Richard Bacchus, and Michael Wildwood.

A deluge of complimentary press (which variously compared them to the Stooges, the Dolls, Hanoi Rocks, and the Dead Boys) greeted the release of D Generation's eponymous debut album. But before they could prove themselves sales-wise, the band was dropped from EMI. Columbia won the ensuing bidding war, and last year issued D Gen's second effort, No Lunch. Produced by former Cars frontman Ric Ocasek, the LP combines several tracks from the debut with new fast 'n' furious numbers like "She Stands There," "Capital Offender," and "1981."

Teenage Kicks spoke to lead singer Jesse Malin and guitarist Richard Bacchus during one of the group's cross-country treks in promotion of No Lunch.

Howie Pyro caught mid-chew at an
in-store appearance in Berkeley (1997)
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Q: You guys recently opened several shows for KISS, including Madison Square Garden. That must have been awesome!

Jesse: Oh, yeah! It was cool.

Richard: Yeah, it was fun! But it was kind of weird. The crowd was there to see KISS with their make-up. So, it wasn't a very musical crowd. There were people there to see stuff get blown up.

Jesse: A circus...

Q: You didn't get booed off, did you?

Jesse: Only once. Not off... we just got laughed at. But we actually did pretty good, considering they didn't know who we were. They didn't know there was an opening act. And like he said, they were there to see the fucking fire and tricks. But KISS were nice to us. They were funny. Funny guys!

Q: Were you prepared for playing arenas?

Richard: Yeah, our crew fell right into it. We used basically the same gear.

Promo poster for No Lunch

Jesse: Some of our jokes didn't go over as good. Y'know, it's a different dynamic when you go out to arenas. You gotta work more and send it out further.

Q: You gotta think Bon Jovi!

Jesse: We always think Bon Jovi!

Q: Since the last time we talked, you were dropped by EMI and picked up by Columbia. What happened there?

Jesse: It's kind of like a sour grapes thing.

Richard: The EMI thing was kind of like a black cloud. We're happy to get out from under it.

Jesse: If you find that record [D Generation], you find it. Otherwise, they stopped making it and we bought it back. It was actually like a blessing, one of those things that's meant to happen. At the time, it seemed weird but looking back it was a good thing.

Q: How did you wind up on Columbia?

Jesse: There was a bidding war with five labels, and we picked Sony/Columbia. We dined and swined and flew all over the place to play for different people and check everything out. We wanted to get going. It was actually harder picking a producer than picking a label.

D Generation headline Connections in Clifton, NJ - February 1, 1997

Q: How did you come to choose Ric Ocasek?

Jesse: We met with so many people, y'know, for a long time. And with him, it really clicked. He's a musician, and he'd worked with some bands that we really like a lot — Suicide, Weezer, Bad Brains... He's just a really cool guy, and he understands music and could be creative. He wanted to do a raw record. And we wanted to do a real live kind of raw record. We met him in a coffee shop!

Jesse Malin
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Q: You carried over four songs from the first album onto No Lunch. Was that your idea or Ric's idea?

Richard: We pooled everything we had, and we included some of the stuff from the first record because... Only about 6,000 copies of that record were sold, and we thought some of those songs deserved a better shake. So, we pooled all this stuff together and let Ric pick what he wanted us to do. We were actually shocked that he picked more of the newer stuff!

Jesse: We had like 30 songs for this record! We wrote a ton of songs. We still have 'em, and we'll do 'em... whenever.

Q: "No Way Out" was chosen for the video...

Jesse: Yeah... We did "She Stands There" as a single for radio to kind of get things going, then "No Way Out." We did the video with Nigel Dick. He's a real character; he did Oasis and Green Day. It was a lot of fun!

Richard: It was a really big production. There were like 200 extras.

Q: Where was it filmed?

Jesse: At the Port Authority, up at the top of Washington Heights by the George Washington Bridge. You can see the bridge if you really look. It was like four in the morning, a very weird day.

"No Way Out" promo CD single

Q: And some it looks like it was filmed in a cheap hotel room.

Richard: That was a set we built. Nigel's great! He had these storyboards. He had every single shot mapped out. He knew exactly what he was going to do.

Jesse: We're not really big fans of video. We'd done some videos before and were never that happy with them. We usually don't like looking at ourselves. But this one we actually liked!

Richard: Before MTV, the bands that made videos had a cinematic outlook — people like Bowie. And now, you have to make a video whether you're that way or not. So, everything gets very cliché looking. You can't tell whether it's a video or a jeans commercial or a coke commercial. Really, the lines are all blurred. That's why I'm excited about the Nigel Dick video, 'cause I really think it stands out a bit more.

Q: You were paired with L7 for several shows on this tour. That seems like a great combination!

CMJ heralds the return of New York rock

with this August 1996 cover pic of D Gen

Richard: It was a really good combination 'cause they have exactly the same sense of humor as us. We get along with them really well. The crowds were pretty cool too. It seemed like a younger crowd than we've played to in the past. The shows were all ages, that was pretty neat. We played some pretty weird places, though.

Jesse: A farmhouse in San Luis Obispo!

Richard: Yeah, we walked into a field with like a little shack in the middle. Like something out of a Clint Eastwood movie.

Q: And what about the shows you're doing with Social Distortion?

Richard: Well, we just started this tour. It's bigger than the last one we did with them, which was really amazing. So, we're really excited. It's a great combination too. It's a good show!

Q: I want to mention the various formats and sleeve designs for No Lunch. There's the double-10" vinyl version with a gatefold cover, and the CD has a gatefold cover... Columbia seem to be really behind you, letting you do stuff like that.

Richard: That's one of the reasons we went with them. When we were meeting with the record companies, we wanted to know: Are we gonna be able to do vinyl? Are we gonna be able to do these kinds of artistic things that you don't see anymore? Columbia was the only label that said, "Yeah, okay."

D Generation at Irving Plaza

July 26, 1996

Jesse: It's fun to have 10" vinyl with a gatefold, and it fits with the concept of the thing. Actually, the CD booklet, what they call the digipak, doesn't come with the vinyl. But the vinyl sounds different. It gets a different warmth. A lot of people that come see us still have record players — Victrolas!

Q: You got some criticism for what was thought to be a "toned-down" sound on the first album. You must be happier this time around!

Jesse: Completely!

Danny Sage shows off his record store finds
while Howie Pyro looks over his shoulder.
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Richard: The first one, we were trying to get every single idea we'd ever had... The producer [David Bianco] was a really great guy, but we found out that wasn't the way to go. You need to have confrontation. You need to have that passion going on in the studio. You can't have someone always saying, "Okay, yeah, we can do that." You need to hit walls and be told, "No, that's not going to work."

Q: And you got that with Ric?

Richard: Yeah! He definitely put limitations on us. He said, "You can do this, but you're gonna have to throw all this other business out." The first record, we were calling up string sections at two in the morning!

Q: What kind of reaction are you getting in New York these days? You're not "local boys" anymore...

Jesse: We're not there enough to get a reaction!

Richard: We're playing Roseland. That will be interesting because when we played the Garden, we weren't really playing to our own people.

D Generation at Coney Island High

June 27, 1997

Jesse: Our audience has changed a lot in New York over the years. There's a lot of people from out of the local side, as well as the core people we grew with. We just wanna reach people and get in people's faces. You can only play to your friends so much; be the big fish in the small pond. It gets kind of tired. We've gotta put ourselves in more challenging situations and see if we survive it. Like doing the KISS thing. Or this tour. This is our biggest tour; we're going around the country like twice!

Q: I know Jesse was a major KISS fan as a kid. How about you, Richard?

Richard: I wasn't at all. I grew up in England. I was into all the glitter bands — Gary Glitter, Sweet...

Q: Mud?

Richard: I was a big Mud fan! But I was never really into KISS.

Q: Jesse, what was it like for you, seeing KISS again with all the effects and the make-up?

Jesse: It was like looking at an old girlfriend, y'know, and you can't figure out what you saw in them. Now I understand why I got beat up by the other kids for liking them. What was I thinking? But the show was the show! It was what I saw when I was a kid; it's blatantly a circus.

Columbia Records publicity photo

L-R: Howie Pyro, Michael Wildwood, Jesse Malin,

Richard Bacchus, and Danny Sage

Photo: John Falls

Q: When the first album came out, we went over the inspiration behind each of the songs, which proved interesting. Since you two are the main songwriters on No Lunch, can we do that again with the new songs?

Jesse: Sure!

Promo poster for No Lunch

Q: Richard, you wrote "Scorch"...

Richard: "Scorch" was written from a place where I was very angry, and very upset, and very disturbed by a lot of different things. But there's also an inside joke in there that no one except me and a really good friend of mine will ever get. I started writing that song on the phone talking about movies, and I finished up the whole thing in about five minutes.

Q: "Scorch" was also included on the Flipside compilation CD...

Jesse: Yeah, that was the first time we ever played it!

Q: Jesse, what's the story behind "She Stands There"?

Jesse: It's about being really scared and isolated. You're looking at a person and you want to communicate, but there's this wall... People have these walls around them. You want to meet somebody, but you might not have the energy or bravery to talk to them. And you only have like a minute to change your whole life; to break that wall, make contact, have the courage to say "Hello." But the mental anxiety that goes on, just thinking about doing that... And they could just be an asshole! So, you're looking at them, trying to figure out...
     I was in a restaurant in New York, looking at some girl who had a record in her hand; it was a real cool record — one of my favorite albums! I wanted to talk to her 'cause she was good-looking and had this great record. But I thought maybe she'd be an asshole. Or maybe it wasn't her record. You talk yourself out of things that could maybe change your life.

Looks like the Exotica LP is going
home with Michael Wildwood.
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Q: You still stress out about meeting girls!

Jesse: Sometimes...

Richard: Aw, he's a real sweetie.

Q: What about "Capital Offender"?

Richard: It's about how, if you think about it, getting a record contract is pretty much a death sentence. It's usually people from a low-income background. They get jacked-up, and all this attention is placed on them overnight... And it goes all the way back to the '60s — people like Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix. And look at it now — like Tupac Shakur. You take a kid out of the gutter, focus all this attention on him... And I don't think the industry really does anything to prevent it. They almost do the opposite and encourage this like gangster lifestyle.

Q: And "Major"?

Jesse: It's pretty much a parallel between people getting burnt out on love and desensitizing themselves... You've been hurt, so you kind of put up these walls. I think, in some ways, when you want to end a connection with somebody who you love a lot, you kind of disconnect. And paralleling that to someone who's been able to kill people, murder people — and detach themselves. I've always been fascinated with how someone can live with killing other people.

Q: How about "Disclaimer"?

My autographed copy of No Lunch

Jesse: People are always trying to figure us out. What are you guys? What is your hairdo? Your clothes? What does this mean? And they hang these different labels... the kind of music that you play... You're put in a slot from day one. Everything is put in its little box, in its little pigeonhole. And I don't think you can do that to people, y'know. And that's a real important message about us: You've got to be your own thing. Whether it's doing your own band, or your own painting, or driving your own car. What you think I am; I'm not. And I might be something else tomorrow. There's so much uniformity. You have to disassociate yourself from your family, your neighborhood, your school, sometimes even from a type of musical genre.

Publicity poster for No Lunch

Q: Like the "glam-punk" tag?

Jesse: That works!

Q: How about "Not Dreaming"?

Jesse: That's just like, trying to create your own life; making the reality you want come true. It's kind of about us growing up, having dreams to do something that's not accepted. And being able to live out your dreams. Going for something, instead of just doing what you think you should do.

Q: What about "Too Loose"?

Jesse: "Too Loose" is inspired a little bit by a movie. In this business, you meet a lot of girls — and guys, but more girls — that work in the adult entertainment business. Most of them are titty dancers, or strippers, or prostitutes — and all kinds of drug addicts. And I think when you deal with sex and money, you lose a certain bit of your passion; you pay a price in some way. And I think anytime... whenever you prostitute yourself, do something that's really against your spirit... I don't think you get away that easy.
     There's a movie called Paris, Texas with Nastassja Kinski and Harry Dean Stanton. He's looking for his wife and he finds her in this peepshow, talking through the glass. He can see her, but she can't see him. This is the person that raised his kid; they had this whole thing together and their lives changed so much.
     It's really scary when you see someone lose a piece of themselves through surviving or going for a lot of money. Everybody thinks sex is a lot of fun and a crazy thing. But there's a coldness to it. And when I meet these people, I get scared.

D Generation & Murphy's Law

at Coney Island High - Halloween 1997

Q: And lastly, "1981"...

Jesse: We grew up in the early '80s. The first band I had was a hardcore band — Heart Attack. We grew up playing with Bad Brains, Reagan Youth, the Beastie Boys...
     And it's kind of a nod to the early years of the East Coast, or just the hardcore scene in general before it got cliché. And it's kind of a tribute to our friend Jimmy from Murphy's Law, who kind of carries on that flag to this day. It's a bit of a story about him and just a nod to that time.

Q: Do you miss that era?

Jesse: Sometimes. I think about great nights and stuff, but I'm really into being in the present. I like what I'm doing now. It was fun then, but you've gotta look back and laugh at yourself too. I was serious. I was gonna change everything!
     But, y'know, there was a certain dedication. Things were brand-new then. Everything was happening. And that music, that movement, affected grunge; it affected hard rock and punk rock, and the last 15 years so heavily. All the rules were put down in those days. It was a brand-new thing — like how I imagine it was in the '50s when rock 'n' roll was new. It was hugely exciting! There were only 75 kids hanging out, and every night you were making history. And it only lasted for such a short time.

Q: And it was a lot more real than the punk/hardcore scene these days.

Howie Pyro on the cover of Teenage Kicks #1

Jesse: Yeah, the anger and frustration were really there, and really legit. It was harder, more dangerous, and more of a real release of expression than it is now. It's very easy and safe to be a radical punk now. We used to get beat up a lot worse. Shave your head, get your ass kicked!
     When we were growing up in the suburbs, to come into the City, or get away from that neighborhood, was to find a place where we were accepted. Or to create a place where you could be okay. And we still try to do that, because kids need somewhere to go where they don't feel like assholes or outcasts, and it's okay.

* To read my first interview with D Generation, go to:  devorahostrov.blogspot.com/2018/06/d-generation

The Ramones Turn 20 & Release An All-Covers CD: A Conversation With Joey About "Acid Eaters" & Rock 'N' Roll

Originally published in American Music Press (March 1994)

Interview by Devorah Ostrov

Promotion for the Acid Eaters tour

Denmark - June 25, 1994

When the Ramones got together in 1974, rock 'n' roll was, if not dead, at least comatose. The great one-hit-wonder garage-rock bands of the mid-sixties were a fading memory. The late-sixties heavy metal attack of the Stooges and MC5 had never really caught on in the States. And the early-seventies promise of a glam future with the Dolls, T. Rex and Slade had waned.

In '74, listening to the radio was something to think twice about. On the phone from New York, Joey Ramone runs down the list (within a year or two) of what you might have heard...

Radioactive Records publicity pic

"Gloria Gaynor, Donna Summer, Peter Frampton, Foreigner, Journey, Toto, REO Speedwagon… all those wonderful bands. That was our competition. There was us and there was them. We stood alone. There was nobody like us. And there's still nobody like us!"

Joey continues: "We wanted to save rock 'n' roll. We stripped it down to the bone and put the excitement back into it — the attitude, the guts, the fun, the spirit, the raw energy and emotion!"

This year the Ramones — Joey, Johnny, Marky, and newest recruit C.J. — celebrate the group's 20th anniversary with the release of Acid Eaters, an all-covers CD showcasing their love of rock 'n' roll. And with a successful world tour underway, they find themselves in the enviable position of being more popular than ever.

* * *

Not only is Joey Ramone the coolest person on the planet, but he's also a huge rock 'n' roll fan, and he gets super excited when we talk about one of his favorite groups. I ask him what it was like the first time he saw the Who...

"It just blew me away!" he exclaims. "I saw them when they first played America in 1966. They were so charismatic and exciting and wild, all this aggression and excitement and great songs!"

Poster for Australia's Big Day Out - January 21, 1994 

And he enthusiastically recalls a recent meeting with Bob Dylan in Tokyo, where the Hard Rock Café threw a blow-out party for the Ramones' 2000th show.

"After the party, me and [noted rock photographer] Bob Gruen went to see Dylan at Budokan. We went backstage, and Dylan said 'Hello' to me. I freaked out! He said, 'Hey, Joey, how ya doin'?' I gave him a copy of Acid Eaters and said, 'This is for you. We covered one of your songs.'"

Acid Eaters

Radioactive Records (1993)

The Ramones' latest offering is a tribute to the music of the 1960s (with one exception: CCR's "Have You Ever Seen the Rain" was issued in early '71). A bit strange, you might think. But you'd be wrong because their passion for the genre is what makes the concept so appealing.

After two decades of inspiring — by Joey's calculation — millions of bands themselves, the guys get to pay homage to some of their own musical heroes.

And maybe it'll give the MTV generation a rock history lesson to boot. (Although that could be a chore as the liner notes only list who wrote the songs, not who performed them — and how many kids are gonna know what outfit Reg Presley fronted?)

The Ramones almost always include an impeccable cover or two on their records — "California Sun" from Leave Home, "Do You Wanna Dance" and "Surfin' Bird" from Rocket To Russia, "Indian Giver" on the B-side of "Real Cool Time." But the idea for Acid Eaters came about when they recorded "Take It as It Comes" (a lesser-known Doors' tune) for 1992's Mondo Bizarro.

Acid Eaters
All Access pass

"The Doors' song was really well-received," remarks Joey, "and our manager, who is also the head of our label [Radioactive Records] said, 'Why don't you guys record five of your favorite songs from that period and we'll make it into an EP. Kind of a treat for the fans.'"

Understandably, with so much material to pick from, the progression from five-song treat to full-length CD didn't take long.

As well as Dylan's "My Back Pages," many garage-rock nuggets are contained amongst the 12 tracks: the Amboy Dukes' "Journey to the Center of the Mind," Love's "7 and 7 Is," the Seeds' "Can't Seem to Make You Mine," the Troggs' "I Can't Control Myself," and the Animals' "When I Was Young."

And almost everything makes sense within the framework of what one might imagine the Ramones listened to as teenagers.

However, the freakish inclusion of an over-played classic-rock standard like the Jefferson Airplane's "Somebody to Love" begs for speculation. Since it's hard to believe that anyone in the Ramones was ever a big Airplane fan, I have to presume that some nervous record company executive shouted, "Don't you guys like anything people have heard of?"

Promotion for the Acid Eaters tour & the Ramones' 2000th show

Tokyo, Japan - February 9, 1994

"The Jefferson Airplane song was our manager's idea," admits Joey. He diplomatically adds, "But after taking it on, it actually became kind of challenging."

While we're on the subject, "Somebody to Love" also features one of three "special guests" who popped round during the recording sessions. In this case, it's a former porn star who isn't normally associated with the Ramones (or any sort of music, really).

"7 and 7 Is" promo CD single

"Somebody called from the office and said, 'How about a guest vocalist?' remembers Joey. 'We have this woman and she's great!' I was like, 'Who? Tina Turner?' And they said, 'No... Traci Lords!' I said, 'Oh...'"

He laughs and says, "I'll leave it at that."

Luckily, the two other guests are saner choices: Skid Row's Sebastian Bach does something on "Out of Time," and Pete Townshend joins in on his own "Substitute." Let's talk about Pete first...

Q: So, Joey... recording "Substitute" while Pete Townshend looked on — you must have just died!

Joey: I was in total awe! I mean, Pete Townshend is my hero! He'll never know just how significantly he's influenced me, how he's enhanced my life. The Who were such a big influence on me as far as songwriting. You can't really tell someone that stuff. The best thing was just watching him sing the backing vocals. And I think the song sounds great! It's really exciting!

Wonderful Japanese advertisement 
for Acid Eaters

Q: And Sebastian Bach... Did he get lost on the way to the Guns N' Roses sessions for The Spaghetti Incident?

Joey: Haha! I was talking to him on the phone, and I told him what we were doing. He said, "Wow! I'd like to do something." I mentioned it to John, and we tried to find something for him to do. Y'know, some people might think, "Skid Row, yech!" I even thought that myself at one time. But they're cool rock 'n' roll kids.

Q: I have to mention your cover of "7 and 7 Is." Somehow your version is played even faster than the speed-of-sound original! But I wish you'd done the trippy ending.

Joey: We're not gonna do that shit! It was too psychedelic for us. But I do think our version is exciting and powerful. As a matter of fact, it's gonna be the next single.

Q: I've heard that [Love vocalist] Arthur Lee has written a song especially for the Ramones. Is that something you'll be recording?

Joey: He wrote a song and he gave me a cassette of it. It was good... it was called... I dunno what it was called. I dunno where I put it. I'm sure it's around here somewhere. Uhmm...

Lux Interior has a starring role in the video for "Substitute."
Click here to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWpfS_MFHw

Q: Okay... There's probably no danger of it turning up on a Ramones' CD anytime soon. So, were there other songs that you wanted to include on Acid Eaters that didn't make it?

Joey: Yeah, I would've liked to have done a Kinks' song, and we listened to "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night" [by the Electric Prunes], but a lot of people have done that song. We also mentioned doing "It's Cold Outside" [by the Choir]. Stiv Bators turned me onto the original, and I used to love it. But it didn't sound that great when I went back and listened to it.

Chrysalis advert for Acid Eaters

Q: Did any of the songs on Acid Eaters pose a problem for you vocally?

Joey: Y'know, you might think it's easy to just cover someone else's song, but it really isn't — especially the way I went about it. I wasn't just trying to cover the songs. I wanted to bring my own style to them. Some of them I stuck a little closer to, like "Can't Seem to Make You Mine." I love Sky's voice and his mannerisms, the way he utilizes his voice. But then a song like "Out of Time"... I wanted to give that one more of an R&B feel.

Q: Do you hope that kids will be inspired to check out the originals after hearing your versions of these songs?

Joey: Hopefully... I mean, there's so much great music out there. Especially if you're a musician yourself, it's totally inspiring to delve into the past. You have to go backwards in order to go forwards. Y'know what I mean?

Q: Sadly, kids don't know anything about rock history.

Joey: It's really pretty pathetic, people's knowledge of music. They haven't got the slightest idea — especially kids in America for some ridiculous reason.

Q: MTV...

Saint Joey painting by Vicki Berndt

https://vickiberndt.com

Joey: Maybe. But even before there was MTV it was like this. I don't know what it is. I remember the first time we went to England in 1976, all these young kids knew all about Little Richard, all the '50s artists, everything! I was blown away! They were totally on top of it. But that's why music sucks in America. Well... it doesn't completely.

Q: C.J. is such a young kid; did he know any of these songs beforehand?

Joey: He knew some of them. His father listened to a lot of that stuff.

Q: Great, my dad likes these songs!

Joey: Haha! I know! Things are so different from when I was a kid. My dad listened to Frank Sinatra records.

Q: I noticed that C.J. is making some sneaky inroads into your territory. He sang lead on two songs from Mondo Bizarro and three more on Acid Eaters ["The Shape of Things to Come," "My Back Pages" and "Journey to the Center of the Mind"]. His vocals are great, but what gives?

Joey: He's pushing me out. I'm gonna let him be the singer!

Radioactive Records publicity photo

Q: What are you going to do? Play tambourine?

Joey: Nah... I'll get a job at Wendy's, or something. No, actually I think it's great. Initially, I was supposed to sing "My Back Pages," but C.J. was doing it at the rehearsals and it was so perfect. He gave the song so much attitude. I just told him, "You should sing it."

Q: Is it true that Dylan was rehearsing next door while you guys were learning "My Back Pages"?

Joey: I wasn't there, but I called the rehearsal studio, and Monty [longtime Ramones' tour manager] told me that Dylan's tour manager was on the phone next to him. Later on, I found out that they were back-to-back rehearsing. Apparently, when John heard that Dylan was right next door, he said, "Uh... let's move on to something else."

Q: I know you've only been back home for a few days...

Joey: Yeah, we just got back from a big tour of Australia and Japan. We were co-headlining [with Soundgarden] this major festival that goes all over Australia called Big Day Out. It's something like Lollapalooza, but much larger — a 12-hour day with 50 bands and five stages! There were some really great bands on the show: the Breeders, Smashing Pumpkins, Teenage Fanclub, Urge Overkill... all the new alternative bands.

Promotion for the Acid Eaters tour - Uruguay 1994

Q: Were you aware of how well Acid Eaters was doing while you were away?

Joey: Not really... I came home to find that the album's been #1 for three weeks straight on CMJ [a "what's hot" industry report], and it's #1 on all the major college charts. The single ["Substitute"] was #1 the first week too! And this week it went to AOR radio. We've always had a problem with AOR radio, but everybody's playing it. It's really exciting! It feels like something's happening here.

"Substitute" CD promo single
Photo: George DuBose

Joey is explaining how the video for "Substitute" being shown on MTV is the edited version — "There's a real wild scene at the end. I mean, maybe it is a little over-the-top but..." — when his doorbell buzzes. It's an Argentinean journalist who's come to do his interview. But Joey "likes the flow of our conversation" and asks me to call him back later! When we talk again, it's about a range of different topics...

Q: How did the Ramones' sound come about?

Joey: Our sound came about... it came from scratch! At least as far as John and Dee Dee [original bassist] and Tommy [original drummer]. Tommy wasn't even a drummer. He was an advisor and a producer; he was just helping us out. When we were auditioning drummers, Tommy would show them what to play, and he'd never played drums in his life! In those days, everybody was very, let's say, self-indulgent. Everybody was trying to impress us with their flashiness. But what we wanted was a basic drummer, like a Charlie Watts. So, Tommy just wound up sitting down and playing the drums.

Q: Could you tell me a little about the Resistance, your politically oriented sideband?

Car 54, Where Are You? starring David Johansen

and John C. McGinley (and featuring the Ramones)

Joey: Oh, okay! Initially, I was asked to do three songs for a Rock the Vote benefit at CBGB's. I wanted to create a unique and exciting situation, so I pulled together a bunch of different musicians and artists: Ivan Julian [ex-Voidoid] and Fred Smith [ex-Television], C.J. and Marc, some people from the Living Theater... And each song was played by a different grouping of people.
     Then I was asked to play a benefit for Jerry Brown's campaign. I had just seen a debate between Brown and Clinton. I was really impressed by Brown; he seemed to be on top of it. So, I said I would do it. It felt really good to do something constructive in support of someone I believed in.
     I got together with Andy Shernoff [ex-Dictators] and Daniel Rey [ex-Shrapnel and writer of cool songs] and did one show in Washington Square Park. Then we played uptown on one of those flatbed trucks for about 50/75,000 people! The last thing we played was a benefit for Rock for Choice on the 20th anniversary of Roe v. Wade.
     The Resistance was a stimulating project and it was a lot of fun! I liked getting behind some causes that were important to get behind, like the cause of censorship. The song "Censorshit" [from Mondo Bizarro] was inspired by the Resistance. And I wrote a song for the Rock for Choice benefit called "Fascists Don't Fuck They Just Screw."

Promotion for the Acid Eaters tour

Santiago, Chile - May 16, 1994

Q: Haha! Will the Ramones be doing that song?

Joey: No... John's a Republican! Musically the Ramones are united; politically we're not. We share some views, like John's for a woman's right to an abortion. But we're not in sync with everything.

Q: I understand you've cleaned up your lifestyle lately. Is it true you're a vegetarian these days?

Joey: Yeah, and I stopped drinking and using drugs about four years ago. It was time for a change. I saw the light when I hit...

Q: Forty?

Joey: Ground zero! It wasn't hitting 40. I just got disgusted with my lifestyle; it was becoming a big bore.

The Ramones eat cake and promote Acid Eaters on 

Space Ghost Coast to Coast

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H-3N0jNbDI

Q: Did you do any shopping while you were in Japan?

Joey: Y'know, Japan has the best record stores! They've got everything! Most places, you're lucky to find one or two records, but over there I had to choose from like five or six. I got the Best Of T. Rex — it has everything on it, all the early stuff. I also found this rock 'n' roll video store. The whole store was just tapes, rare collectible stuff from shows all over the world. I was flippin'! They had a tape of the Who from '66. Pete Townshend's about 18; he's like a rail with a big nose. It's so great!

Promotion for the 1994 Acid Chaos tour

featuring Sepultura and the Ramones

Q: So, tell me about the film Car 54, Where Are You? starring David Johansen. The Ramones appear in it...

Joey: Did you see it?

Q: Er… no. Entertainment Weekly gave it an "F."

Joey: Haha! I never saw it either. I'll wait for it to come to cable. I just heard that "Rockaway Beach" is going to be used in the new Martin Scorsese film, Naked In New York, and there's a film coming out in March or April called Airheads — we have the title track in that. It's about a band that takes over a radio station. It sounds like it has the makings of a good movie; it's something I've thought about a few times myself!

Q: Did you go to or play at CBGB's 20th Anniversary party?

Joey: No, we were on tour. We were in Germany at the time. I was kind of pissed off because there were a lot of shows I wanted to see, and we were talking about playing, but it didn't come together. Now that it's our own 20th anniversary, we might do something like an off-the-cuff show at CBGB's. It would be an event!

Q: Twenty years... Who would've thought?

Promo poster for Acid Eaters
Radioactive Records (1993)

Joey: When you care about something... What other people think doesn't really matter to us. Y'know what I mean? We work hard. We've always worked our asses off and stuck to our vision!

* Follow these links to read my other interviews with the Ramones:

blogspot.com/the-ramones-this-january-1978-interview

blogspot.com/the-last-time-i-talked-to-joey-ramone

blogspot.com/in-1992-i-talked-to-marky-ramone