Girlschool - Would You Buy A Used Washing Machine From These Girls?

Originally published in Rave-Up #4 (1982)

Interview by Devorah Ostrov

Ron Quintana showing issue #5 of Metal Mania to Girlschool
guitarist Kelly Johnson & drummer Denise Dufort 
during a record store visit in San Francisco.
Photo by Gil Weston (using Ron's Instamtic camera)

Still riding high on the UK chart success of Hit And Run and before the release of their third album, a short string of US dates (cheekily called the "Lock Up Your Sons" tour) brought Girlschool to the Old Waldorf in April. 

Following their soundcheck, we spoke to Kim, Kelly, Denise, and newcomer Gil about the tour, discovered what their parents think of their alliance with Motorhead, and uncovered scandalous tales of what went on at a real girls' school. Plus, Kim took the opportunity to quiz Denise and Gil about their work history experience! 

Q: With the massive success of Hit And Run, do the music papers tend to treat you with more respect?

Kim: I don't know. I think we got a bit of a backlash, didn't we? They built us up and built us up... We were always in the press for a while. And then we started doing really well, and the album started doing really well. Then suddenly, they thought they would start criticizing us!

Q: When you started out, did you have to prove yourselves to the audience because you were girls? Or didn't that matter to English audiences?

Kim: I don't know, really. We didn't think we had to prove ourselves, but I expect we did in a way. They [the audience] used to come along and pack down three drinks in the pub beforehand and then just come and have a good laugh. But a lot of them came back again because they liked the music.

Motorhead & Girlschool 
at Friars Aylesbury

Kelly: It's starting again over here because we don't know anybody and we're playing small clubs. 

Q: This is your first time touring America?

Kim: Yeah, it's been fab [sarcastically].

Kelly: Fun, fun, fun [also sarcastically].

Q: How are the mostly male audiences treating you here as opposed to England?

Kim: Really well, actually! We're quite surprised. A few of them know the songs. It's nice. We feel like we're at home!

Q: Have you been getting good reviews so far on the tour?

Kelly: Yeah! I don't know why. It's surprising.

Kim: I don't know why, either. But yeah, they've been really good. They think we've done these amazing things, like going way over the top, you know. And we're saying, "Wait, are they talking about us?" 

Q: Where have you played so far?

All Together: Baltimore, New York, Philadelphia, Boston, Trenton, New Haven, Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland...

Q: New Haven? Trenton? No one ever plays there!

Kim: We'd never even heard of New Haven and Trenton.

Q: Did anyone come to see you there?

Kim: Yeah! I suppose because they don't have many bands there.

Q: They didn't care who you were!

L-R: Denise Dufort, Kelly Johnson, Kim McAuliffe and Gil Weston
(publicity photo)

Kim: Exactly! We did a gig in Portland [Oregon], and that was sold out — 3,000 people! We were looking at the city and there was nothing to do at night. So it must have been a big event. A gig!

Q: Is the Old Waldorf the smallest place you've played in a while?

Kim: We've played a few over here that have been about this size. But we've never played to people sitting down eating dinner!

Q: Motorhead played here last year. It was amazing! 

Kim: Yeah, right! Steve, one of our guitar roadies was with them. He said they didn't have any tables or chairs for them. But they knew about it in advance. If we'd known... Nobody tells us anything! [Note: Most of the tables and chairs were removed before the show started.]

Q: Did your parents warn you not to hang around with Motorhead because they were a bad influence?

Mercury/Polygram Records publicity photo

Kim: No, not really. They all really like Motorhead. My mum and dad went to their last concert at the Hammersmith. They're really into the band; they helped us a lot in the beginning. They never said, "Oh no, we don't want you to do this. We want you to become a secretary." They helped us all they could. We're pretty lucky, really. 

Q: Did any of you actually work as secretaries?

Kim: I worked in a bank, that's pretty close. [Pointing at Kelly] She was various things. What were you, Gil?

Gil: A skivvy.

Denise: I used to sell washing machines and 'fridges and stuff in a big chain shop. They sold kettles, tea sets, paint, posters...

Kim: Did you ever sell anything?

Denise: Yeah! I used to get wages, but I'd get a commission on top if I sold a washing machine. I sold four in a week once.

Q: Were you more influenced by male heavy metal groups or Suzi Quatro and other female rockers?

Kim: Neither! I used to love Led Zeppelin, and I suppose they influenced me quite a bit. But we...

Kelly: She actually loves them!

Kim: I do, yeah! I think they're one of the best bands ever in the whole universe! I don't know really, there's so many. I think David Bowie is a pretty common hero with this band. He's just terrific! He's my hero. [Gil was wearing a David Bowie t-shirt.]

Q: Did any of you go to a girls' school?

Kelly Johnson posing for my camera at Grauman's Chinese Theatre, and walking
down Hollywood Blvd. before the show - Los Angeles, California, 2004 
(Photos: Devorah Ostrov)

Kim: I did, yeah. Denise did. They're good fun! I used to have great laughs at school. We used to cause riots!

Kelly: She used to beat people up!

Kim: I didn't beat people up! We just used to go out and get pissed at dinner time, go back and create havoc, you know. There wasn't much they could do with six or seven drunken girls. Our school had the highest pregnancy rate in London. We all had our own boyfriends who'd come and pick us up after school. I used to have this cute boyfriend with a motorbike who'd pick me up. But while we were at school it was just a lot of girls together. Like it is now, actually. From one girls' school to another!

The opening group, Stepmothers, start their soundcheck and everyone gets distracted...

Kim: Is this the support band? They're really good! They're heavy. I thought they were going to be punk rock. Or are they heavy?

Q: They're heavy metal punk rockers! The heavy metal kids don't like them because they're too punk rock. And the punks don't like them because they're too heavy metal.

Stiff Records advert for the US release of Hit And Run (a combination
of the first two UK albums) plus exciting tour information!

Kim: We had exactly the same problem. When we came out, it was the new wave era in Britain. So, when we used to play new wave clubs, they didn't like us 'cause we were too heavy metal. When we played heavy metal places, they didn't like us 'cause they thought we were too much like new wave.

Kelly: We got a little confused. We developed this neurosis.

Q: What did you finally decide you were?

Kim: The kids decided what we were.

Kelly: We wanted to be labeled!

Kim: We got labeled in the end 'cause Motorhead came along, saw us, and wanted us to support them on tour. We said, "Yes!" And then of course we started to play to all heavy metal audiences. After that, we were labeled as HEAVY METAL!

Brent Muscat Is Pretty, But What Makes Him Special? The Faster Pussycat Guitarist Answers That & More In This 1990 Interview!

Originally published in Rave-Up #18 (1990)

Interview by Devorah Ostrov

Faster Pussycat (publicity photo)

"You're pretty, but what makes you special?"

Taime Downe, an employee at Retail Slut and frontman for fledgling LA club band Faster Pussycat, hurled this rude compliment at a friend of mine as she walked down Melrose Avenue. 

When she couldn't come up with a witty retort, he smirked and sauntered off — having made his point, I guess. And thus, I began biding my time for three long years, waiting for an opportunity to interview Faster Pussycat so I could turn that question on Taime himself (and ask about their records and stuff).

Brent & Eric in ROCKbeat magazine

So, I was mildly vexed when nice guy Brent Muscat called Rave-Up HQ for this interview. But I asked him, anyway...

Q: You're pretty, but what makes you special?

"I like that question," laughs Brent, before he confidently dives in: "I think I have a good personality. I like to think I'm semi-intelligent. I have a good imagination, and I think I'm creative."

The cutie-pie guitarist also mentions that he's attracted to girls with good personalities. "Sometimes, you meet someone with a perfect body and a beautiful face," he says, "but there's nothing inside because they've never had to develop a personality."

Faster Pussycat's strong sophomore album, Wake Me When It's Over (the title of a 1960 comedic romp and a possible comment on the trials and tribulations of the recording process), was released by Elektra Records last August. Since then, the guys have been playing club dates to promote the LP, but they'll soon be embarking on a major US tour as openers for fellow LA glam/trash merchants Mötley Crüe. 

Brent is very excited about the upcoming tour, calling it the band's "first big break." Perhaps surprisingly, that comment is meant to include their support slot on Alice Cooper's 1987 (pre-"Poison") tour. 

Faster Pussycat on the cover of
Screamer magazine - May 1990

According to Brent, supporting Alice was "great for us, but it wasn't a lot of exposure. There's a big difference between playing in front of 2,000 people a night and playing in front of 30,000 people a night [the projected average audience for Mötley Crüe]. Especially when the 2,000 people are hardcore Alice Cooper fans, and they don't really care about who's opening up. I'm hoping that the Mötley Crüe crowd are gonna be a little more into us."

The group that took its moniker from a Russ Meyer's cult flick and worked especially hard at developing a bad-boy image based on (real or imagined) debauchery and depravity, also seems untroubled by any form of lyrical censorship from the record company. 

Wake Me When It's Over might be a touch more bluesy/boozy than the band's 1987 eponymous debut, but it's definitely no less sleazy. "I've got you buckled to the floorboards/Got you screaming like a pooch on a leash..." sings Taime on the LP's primly titled opening track, "Where There's a Whip There's a Way."

Elektra really didn't have a problem with their lyrics?

"There's stuff that Elektra maybe doesn't like," admits Brent, "but we were like that when they signed us. So it's like, they knew what they were getting."

Early flyer for Faster Pussycat (and the Zeros)
at the Country Club in Reseda, CA. 

"We have a really good manager," Brent adds. "He might say, 'This is a super good song. If you change this one word, maybe it can be on the radio.' Then, we have to decide if that's important to us or not."

Has it ever been important enough to them to change a song's lyrics?

"Not really," he insists.

The group has, however, received its fair share of finger-wagging from the P.M.R.C. (Parents Music Resource Center, headed-up by Tipper Gore). And while some might say the criticism is well deserved, Brent notes that Faster Pussycat fans have quickly jumped to their defense.

Wake Me When It's Over
(Elektra Records, 1989)

"I've seen a letter this girl wrote to Tipper Gore," he says. "She wrote, 'When Faster Pussycat talk about sex, it's a sexual thing. It's not a bad thing.'"

"Actually, I don't think she'd read our lyrics 'cause there's some real dirty stuff in there," he chuckles. But in general, Brent agrees with the letter writer. "It's true. When Taime sings about stuff, it's mostly from his personal experience. And a lot of the stuff that sounds nasty doesn't really mean nasty stuff."

He points to "Slip of the Tongue" as an example: "You could take that to mean something really nasty, and sometimes when we play it live, Taime will say it's about, er... [Brent pauses to giggle because he's a nice guy and has probably just realized he's telling this story to a girl] ...eating pussy. But it's really about people talking shit about each other; people talking behind your back and getting you in trouble — 'With a slip of the tongue/I'm in deep shit!'"

What about "Where There's a Whip There's a Way"? Is that an amusing metaphor too?

Faster Pussycat

"No, that's pretty straight to the point," states Brent. "But at the same time, Taime isn't telling people they should do that. It's just his little bondage fantasy. It shouldn't be taken seriously. When I first heard the lyrics to that song, I was laughing! 'Gonna sign that filly up for the rodeo...' It's just ridiculous!"

Brent's personal favorite songs on the new LP are "Pulling Weeds" and "Little Dove," both of which he co-wrote with Taime. On the latter, he employs a talk box — the weird tube-like apparatus that Peter Frampton made so irritatingly famous back in the '70s. 

Annoyingly, Brent won't tell me what he's saying into the talk box (he "prefers to leave it to your imagination"), but he acknowledges that Frampton Comes Alive was one of the first records he ever bought. Although he'd rather give Aerosmith credit for the inspiration: "Joe Perry has always used one. He plays it on 'Sweet Emotion,' but he doesn't make a big deal out of it."

Brent didn't include it as a favorite, but the Faster Pussycat tune getting the most attention at the moment is "House of Pain," penned by Taime and guitarist Greg Steele. The power-ballad about a young boy's abandonment by his father is the latest track from the LP to be issued as a 45 (it follows the raucous "Poison Ivy"), and an emotional black and white video for the song (directed by Michael Bay) has been picked up by MTV.

Publicity photo from Faster Pussycat's debut album cover
L-R: Mark Michals, Brent Muscat, Greg Steele, Taime Downe, Eric Stacy

The intensity of Taime's vocals on "House of Pain" leads one to believe the song is autobiographical, which to a certain extent it is. "Taime grew up with his dad not around a lot," explains Brent. "It was just something he felt about his dad."

He emphasizes, "I think it's a really cool song because when most bands write a ballad, it's gotta be on the radio and it's gotta say, 'I love you baby... I miss you so much... I won't forget you...' Which is great, but for me, I think 'House of Pain' is cooler because it feels more real."

Brent Muscat is a ROCKbeat Metal Pinup

"Cryin' Shame," also written by the Downe/Steele team could likewise be classified as a ballad, although its gruesome storyline sets it way outside standard ballad territory.

"To me, 'Cryin' Shame' isn't a ballad," says Brent. "It's a very scary song. It's a true story. Taime and Greg read this book called Say You Love Satan." (Written by David St. Clair, the book chronicles the grisly murder of a teenager by his friends.) 

"I didn't read it," Brent continues. "I'm not really into that kind of stuff. But they were like, 'Wow!' It was really shocking to them. How could these kids kill another kid? It's kind of written from the point of view of the kid who died. What was he thinking about?"

Plagued by personal and professional problems for the last couple of years, recording a second album sometimes seemed impossible. 

"There's a lot of positive things happening to us now," states Brent with obvious relief. "But there was a period between this album and our first one where we thought we weren't going to do it. We kept thinking, 'God, why is this happening?' When we were down on our luck, something else [bad] would happen." 

Graphically portraying the band's feelings of frustration over their (hopefully) past problems is the LP's strange cover art which portrays a man screaming. But Brent refuses to tell anyone who it is or why they're screaming.

"House of Pain" b/w "Slip of the Tongue"
picture sleeve 45 released in Germany - 1989 

"Someone thought it was Jimi Hendrix," he offers. "Someone else thought it was Sly Stone. To someone, it's a guy screaming 'cause he's having an orgasm. To someone else, he's getting his fingers chopped off."

"It's anything you want it to be," Brent says with a noncommittal shrug I can see on the other end of the phone line. But there is a motive behind their madness, and it has to do with being viewed as legitimate musicians. 

"We wanted people to look at the cover and say, 'What are they doing? What does that mean?' Rather than, 'They look good, but can they play?' That's what happened with our first album. With this album, we wanted people to see that we're a serious band and listen to our music."

Which neatly brings us back around to the start of this interview. Faster Pussycat is pretty, but what makes the band special? 

"We don't take ourselves seriously," firmly states Brent. "We have fun with it. There's a million people out there who are in bands. There's a million guys who play guitar. A lot of people get carried away and think they're rock stars. I don't think I'm the greatest person in the world, just because I play guitar. Being in a band isn't so important; we remember that."

Faster Pussycat - "Just the Facts"

Will And The Kill: The Younger Sexton Brother Releases His Debut Album, And Another Austin Legend Is Launched!

Originally published in Rave-Up #14 (1988)

Interview by Devorah Ostrov

Will Sexton
Photo: Nels Israelson (from the LP Will And The Kill)

In case you don't know, 17-year-old Will Sexton is Charlie's little brother. There, that's out of the way. He's also gorgeous, smart, funny, charming, self-assured, and a helluva talented musician in his own right!

While lazing around his home in Austin, Texas, Will picked up the phone to chat about his debut album, Will And The Kill — produced by music legend Joe Ely and released on MCA Records. But first, I had some business to take care of for a certain ex-Go-Go.  

Q: First of all, who is your favorite person with the initials K.V.?

WILL (after a very long pause): Kerry Von Erich?

Q: No! Not even close. You were supposed to say, "Kathy Valentine." I told her I was going to be talking to you today.

WILL: Yeah? We wrote a song together!

Q: "Restless to Reckless."

WILL: Yeah! If you tell her I said Kerry Von Erich, I'll kill you.

Q: So, who's Kerry Von Erich?

WILL: He's a famous wrestler from Dallas. He's a real sweet guy, too.

Will And The Kill 
(MCA Records 1988)

Q: Did you know Kathy before you made this record?

WILL: Yeah, well, she's from Austin.

Q: Did you also know Joe Ely? Is he an old family friend? 

WILL: Well, pretty much. It's not as tight a unity in Austin as it was eight or nine years ago. Well, even before that. But as far as I can remember, all the bands were like a family, and we were all doing the same kind of music. It was either rockabilly or rock and roll or blues. There were none of these, you know, art or heavy metal bands around Austin. It was really a blues town.

Q: It must have been fun to work with Joe Ely since you've known him for so long.

WILL: Yeah! There was just a wild voodoo in the air when we did this record. Charlie and Ely... Jimmy Vaughn came in and played on a song. It was really fun. We definitely had a good time! I think that's the way records should be made. Too many people make records without having fun, and they get into this big generic thing.

Q: It seems like you're also trying to bring back the family atmosphere that Austin used to be known for. Like working with your friends...

WILL: Uh-huh. The record has a personal feeling to it when you listen to it. It's real personal to me. I made the record to make me happy. I didn't make it for anyone else but myself. There were times when it got frustrating. But for the most part we just had a blast!

Q: You've changed your whole band since the record came out. Were they studio musicians who didn't want to tour?

Will and the Kill open for
Lords of the New Church at the
Cave Club in Austin, Texas - July 1987

WILL: Well, I was looking for something and I wasn't getting it. So, I got a new band that makes me feel like I want to feel on stage. 

Q: So, you just fired the old group?

WILL (laughing): Well... you know, there's a bunch of politics behind it. But all that matters is that I got a new band that sounds tighter than ever, and I'm happy. Things are working out the way I want them to.

Q: I've heard that you and Charlie used to be in a band together. Is that true?

WILL: Well, kind of, when we were kids.

Q: What were you called?

WILL: Los Dos Dudes... The Two Dudes.

Q: How cool! Did you write your own songs back then?

WILL: Nah... we just did old blues standards. 

Q: You guys were playing old blues standards when you were kids? Were you playing them well?

WILL (laughing): Well... certain blues standards aren't too hard. But back then, we were just getting it together. We started playing with the Vaughan brothers, the Thunderbirds, and Double Trouble.

Q: Are your influences mostly blues? Do you listen to any current rock bands?

WILL: I really like the old guys, going back to "Hound Dog" Taylor, Magic Sam, and a lot of blues guitar players. But I especially love "Hound Dog" Taylor; he had this disgusting tone that was beautiful! I like ZZ Top and the Rolling Stones. And I love Slash from Guns N' Roses; he's a great guitar player!

      

Q: Your taste in music is so different from what most people your age listen to. Maybe it's because you're from Texas, but most teenagers just know what they see on MTV.

Will and the Kill
(MCA publicity photo)

WILL: Well, y'know... Most of the stuff that's being made and marketed in the world is, uhmm... starting to upset me a little bit. I mean, people need to get down to basic drums and rockin' rhythm guitars — the stuff Keith Richards will be doing for as long as he lives. This techno stuff is a waste of time. It has no personality.

Q: Do a lot of people compare your music to what Charlie's doing?

WILL: I get a lot of people saying, "Oh, you're so much truer to the whatever..." The music I'm playing right now isn't too different from what Charlie was doing three years ago. A lot of my stuff... I learned a lot from watching Charlie's previous bands. He had some great bands, and his band now is great! Charlie's just one of those kinda guys who always sounds good no matter what style he plays in, y'know.

Q: Did you learn any lessons watching Charlie's rise to stardom?

WILL: Well, I think you have to plan it correctly and think about where you want to end up in the years to come, rather than just being Mr. Big this year and a wash-out tomorrow. As long as I can pay my rent, I'm fine. I don't need to have no giant mansion.

Will Sexton - at the Stone in SF
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Q: So, you're doing this because you genuinely love the music.

WILL: Yeah! That's why I was shocked that people really appreciated the record when it came out. I really didn't expect that.

Q: Well, it's a great album!

WILL: I didn't think it would be this big. I just kinda did it, y'know. When me and Joe were writing songs for the record, we didn't think, "Oh, we can do this and make it a hit song." 

Q: I wonder about some of your lyrics. There's some risqué innuendos...

WILL: Are there? Uh-oh. You should hear the versions that I had before they [MCA Records] made me edit the lyrics!

Q: Did you have to do a lot of editing?

WILL: Haha! Sometimes!

Q: Can you give me an example?

WILL: It's a song to be saved until I make enough money where I can say whatever I want. I'm gonna be making a lot more records, and they're just gonna get filthier and filthier. When I play live, I do some X-rated versions of the songs. "Rocks in My Pillow" has got some really low-down lyrics, but I can't say them to a girl. When I'm on stage, and you're not looking...

Q: I imagine a lot of girls come to your shows!

WILL: We're not a teenybopper band or anything, so we get all kinds. I think that my band can appeal to anyone from 15 to 40-year-olds. Which is real important because you gotta have... As long as you've got soul and you've got feeling, and you put it into your music, people of all ages will like it. If you do that heavy metal and techno nonsense with no soul, then that ain't gonna go anywhere.

Charlie & Will Sexton 
Photo: Todd V. Wolfson 

Q: Do you have any advice for other kids who want to play guitar?

WILL: My advice is to buy some Hendrix records and stuff like that before you start listening to Ying Yang Mom's Mang. I mean, listen to where it all came from because you can't learn... Like, I think Eddie Van Halen is incredible, but I think it would be a sin for someone to learn to play guitar from Eddie Van Halen because he learned from the greats. He really studied and really knows his roots.

Q: Well, I don't want to take up too much of your time...

WILL: It's a good day to do interviews. I'm in a great mood today! For three years, I did interviews with people that didn't even know what I sounded like or nothing. So, I was getting annoyed. 

The Lords of the New Church: I Catch Up With Stiv & Nicky During The Group's 1983 US Tour

Originally published in Rave-Up #6 (1983)

Interviews by Devorah Ostrov

Stiv fronting the Lords of the New Church - 1984
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

One afternoon in 1981, I was hanging out at Stiv's London flat, chatting with a mutual friend. I hadn't been there for long when Stiv and his girlfriend Stacy (Anastasia Maisonneuve) ran upstairs from doing their laundry. At the top of the stairs, Stiv proudly announced that he'd formed a new group called The Lords of the New Church. "Great name!" I exclaimed. But I wondered, "Will it fit on a badge?"

Two years later, the Lords were touring the States for the second time in promotion of their eponymous debut LP on I.R.S. Records. The morning after their show at the Old Waldorf, I interviewed Nicky and Stiv at the hotel.  

Nicky Turner on Portobello Road - 1984
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Part One: Nicky Turner (Lords' drummer/former Barracudas' drummer)

Q: Remember when you told me that Stiv and Brain were going to play at Le Kilt as a surprise? But then it fell through...

Nicky: Oh, yeah!

Q: Was that supposed to be the first Lords of the New Church show?

Nicky: No, that was when I first met Stiv. He was going to do a show with Brian, Glen Matlock, and Terry Chimes. He just never got anything together. They probably could've played about three songs.

Q: Is that when they asked you to join the band?

Nicky: Yeah! I was playing with the Barracudas that night, and I saw Stiv afterwards. He said, "You should come down and play with us." I said, "Great!" And then the French thing came up at the same time. We did one rehearsal and I said, "Let's do it" — free champagne, trip to Paris first class, all expenses paid.

Q: Were there any hard feelings when you left the Barracudas?

Nicky: Jeremy was a bit upset. He asked me to hang on in the hope that something might happen. But...

Q: Could you tell that the band was going to be successful from the beginning?

"Live for Today" 45 promo material
(I.R.S. Records 1983)

Nicky: I knew it would be big. And I know it's going to be much bigger. When we first got together, we had like three or four numbers and two of those were covers. In Paris, we did "Just Like Me" by Paul Revere and the Raiders. We did "I Had Too Much to Dream Last Night," a song from Stiv's Disconnected album, and "Girls Girls Girls" [the B-side of the "Open Your Eyes" single]. And that was it. But it just felt so good!

Q: How quickly did things progress after that first show?

Nicky: It took us about six months after that French gig to actually start playing properly. We did lots of support gigs in London; lots of little gigs with ten people. After we did the album, things started moving a little bit. We did an English tour, the first half of which was totally disastrous because the album hadn't come out, and no one came to see us at all.

Q: No one knew who you were?

Nicky: Not really. We tried to play it down because we wanted it to be a new band and stand up on its own. That's why we just put our surnames on the album, to try and keep it as low-key as possible. We didn't want people to have any preconceptions about the music. We weren't the new Dead Boys or the new Damned or whatever.

Q: I want to ask you about the change in music and style from the Barracudas to the Lords. Which is the real you?

The Lords outside the York Hotel in SF - 1982
L-R: Stiv fiddling with a camera, Dave pointing,
Brian talking to Nicky & Nicky reacting.
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Nicky: The real me? A namby-pamby pop star or an out-and-out revolutionary? I don't know. I've forgotten what the Barracudas were like.

Q: I have photos. I can refresh your memory.

Nicky: No! No! I'd rather you didn't, actually. 

Q: I've heard that the band will be recording a new album soon.

Nicky: We're starting recording on April 26. It'll be out in June, I should think. Then we'll be back here again for about three months or so.

Nicky with the Barracudas - Dingwalls 1981
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Q: Three months? Wow!

Nicky: We have to do it. This is our "main market," as they say. We're not big in England at all; it's all Culture Club and very fashionable bands over there. We haven't played in England in the last nine or ten months. We've only played in Europe and over here. We'll get out there at some point, I suppose. With the next album, we'll play some more gigs there.

Q: Have you guys written anything for the next album yet?

Nicky: Uh... You know how lazy we are. We've got that song "Black Girl White Girl," which we played at the end last night. And we've got "Live for Today," which we did with Todd Rundgren. That's about it.

The phone rings and I excuse myself. As I reach the door, Nicky calls out...

Nicky: I was acting the real pop star the last time we were here, wasn't I? Drinks and drugs and debauchery...

Q: Are you behaving any better this time around?

Nicky: Noooo! Haha!

★ ★ ★

The Lords of the New Church outside the York Hotel in SF - 1982
L-R: Brian, Stiv, Nicky & Dave
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Part Two: Stiv Bator (Lords' frontman/former Dead Boys' and Wanderers' frontman)

Stiv: I ain't in too great of shape. [He pulls up his sleeve to display his swollen arm.] I've got to get it drained out, but that's what the end of tours are for.

Q: Yesterday, you asked me about Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan in San Francisco, and you and Stacy had a Wiccan wedding last year... Are you into black magic as well as white magic?

Stiv: I'm into studying the occult, all different forms. Not necessarily for practice, but you know... The wedding... It predates Judaism and Christianity in England. It's the way people used to get married around the time of the Druids. I read about the ceremony and really liked it. It seemed more natural. For instance, the Druids — or the "Wiccans" — before they cut a limb off a tree, they'd say, "As I take from you, you'll take from me someday." They were a culture that was in tune with the Earth's magic.

   We got married inside a five-candled pentagram with salt around it. And it was blessed by a sword. Everybody was kind of scared when they first saw it, but after they heard the words that we said... which were: "Join us as soul mates for eternity." The wedding lasts for a year and a day. If you want to continue, you just say the vows again.

Stiv (with Brian James) - 1986
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Stiv excuses himself to run down the street for breakfast. He returns a few minutes later with a Hostess cupcake and a carton of milk.

Q: Tell me about the political stance of the Lords. This seems to be a new development for you lyrically.

Stiv: We got political... Well, it first started when I was living in the desert in about '79. I was staying with a bunch of different bands when I first came out to LA — Pure Hell, Cheetah and me, Levi, and Angie Bowie... It's a weird combination! We were living right near the Spawn Ranch in the Mojave Desert, and I did a lot of acid sitting in the desert, thinking... I started putting down a lot of ideas. I was reading [The Book of] Revelation. 

   The politics, though... It's like when you're living in the eye of a hurricane, you don't see the damage. When I went to England, I could finally see what America was doing to the world; the effect it was having. From being outside it and being so close to Europe, and Russia's influence... So, this album is more or less blatant. I had all those chances to say something and never did. I thought this time — if it's my last time — I'm going to say it.

Q: This certainly isn't your last album, though.

Stiv: No! But just in case there's a born-again Hinckley in the crowd, you know.

Q: It almost happened in San Diego. I heard someone shot you with a BB gun.

Stiv: Yeah, close but no cigar.

The Lords open for The Police
at The Golden Summernight concert
 in Germany - September 18, 1983

Q: What happened when the Lords played at the Old Waldorf last time? A lot of your fans were disappointed afterwards.

Stiv: Yeah... I was drunk off my ass. I kept missing the mike; I couldn't find it. In fact, that's the only thing I really remember onstage from the last time — walking around trying to look for the mike.

Q: I know you're still working on material for the second album, but Todd Rundgren produced "Live for Today"...

Stiv: Tell you what... Turn off your tape recorder for a second, and I'll play you "Live for Today."

He pops a cassette into a Boombox and plays me the Lords' toughened-up cover of the Grassroots 1967 folk-pop tune (originally called "Let's Live for Today"). When the tape finishes, Stiv picks up the conversation.

Stiv: After we finish the album, we're doing some dates in Germany. We were supposed to do Australia with the Police, but that fell through.

Q: How can you possibly play to the same audience as the Police?

Stiv: We did it in Gateshead, England. We won over most of the audience; they liked it. It's all like leather... We bring out their dirty dreams or something. I'm sort of the Anti-Sting!

* You can read my other interviews with Stiv here:

Stiv Bators: Two Extraordinarily Candid Interviews

The Dead Boys: Brand New Band, Same Old Stiv

Lords Of The New Church: Hanging Out On Portobello

In 1982 I Summoned The Courage To Interview Bauhaus ... And They Were Really Nice!

Originally published in Rave-Up #6 (1983)
Interview by Devorah Ostrov

Bauhaus publicity photo

The backstage dressing room at the Old Waldorf was pitch-black. A red light flickered in the corner. I was scared to death. A quarter of an hour earlier, Bauhaus had finished their set and left the stage, and for some reason, my friend Sara and I thought seeking them out for an interview would be a jolly way to end the evening. But now, I couldn't even see the questions on the piece of paper in my hand.

I finally found Peter Murphy, slumped in a chair and looking exquisitely bored. "Nope," I thought to myself, "no way." Instead, I stumbled into the empty area next to guitarist Daniel Ash. Soft-spoken and polite, he said he'd be happy to answer some questions for a fanzine (or something to that effect; I was busy fumbling with the tape recorder's on/off button in the dark). I must admit, in the impenetrable gloom, I didn't even see bassist David J sitting there until he joined in the conversation. He was very nice as well.

Daniel Ash - publicity photo

Q: I read an article recently which said Bauhaus didn't want to do the "standard tour" sort of thing and sing the "standard songs." But it seems like that's more or less what you're doing on this US tour.

Daniel: We're just being practical about it. It's different in America. It's at a different stage, you see. We're at a similar stage in the US to where we were about three years ago in England. The last English tour was a total sell-out. We were breaking records!

   In England, we've raised the whole thing to a certain pitch now. If we do something different, which we intend to do with our next tour, we're going to have the attention of a large majority of people. So, it's not like sort of screaming into the wilderness. 

Q: I thought you already had everyone's attention.

Daniel: Not over here. That's why we're doing this sort of tour, just to get attention; to raise it to a certain pitch. And then we can go off on a tangent.

Q: I wondered if that's why "Spirit" and "Bela Lugosi's Dead" weren't included in your setlist tonight. I thought perhaps it was part of your statement about not playing the standard songs. 

Daniel: Tonight? No, not at all! We've got about 85 songs and you can only fit so many into a set, obviously.

Mask (Beggars Banquet -1981)
gatefold cover artwork by Daniel Ash

Q: Yes, of course. It's just that those two songs are amongst the best known and most loved of your material out here.

Daniel: Really? I didn't know that. We wouldn't necessarily have played them anyway. It's just the case that there are dozens of songs we can play. When we played in Chicago, we did away with the conventional set and did one piece ["Antonin Artaud"], which lasted for the entire time.

Q: Wow! Was the audience prepared for that?

Bauhaus - publicity photo

Daniel: Well, we asked them to bring drums and things like that. We just handed all the instruments over to them in the end. So, that was good.

Q: I wanted to ask you about the recording of "Bela Lugosi's Dead." I've heard that you made the demo tape for it after only being together for six weeks.

Daniel: Four weeks.

Q: That's amazing! You must have known exactly what you wanted to do when you got together.

Daniel: Well, it was just one of those magical moments. It was recorded as a demo, but it worked out so well just on an 8-track that we decided on it as a single.

The Sky's Gone Out
(Beggars Banquet - 1982)

David J: We don't really believe in demo tapes. The best things happen the first time; that's usually the case. Or something happens...

Daniel: ...that you can never recreate. We like to go for accidents.

Q: You used an image from The Cabinet Of Dr. Caligari on the sleeve for "Bela Lugosi's Dead," and it's been noted that your stage lighting is reminiscent of the film. Is that something the band is greatly influenced by?

David J: Yeah... But the thing is, we started using lights like that before we'd seen any German Expressionist films. I'd seen photographs, and I've seen a lot of films since our live shows have started. It's remarkable, the similarity in their approach and our approach. It's just a common interest or idea; we're not copyists of that film.

Daniel: It's just a coincidence. We like to use black and white lights for a dramatic effect.

Q: The amazing photo on the cover of "Bela Lugosi's Dead" is another old movie still... What film is that from?

Front: Peter Murphy
Back row: David J, Kevin Haskins, Daniel Ash

David J: The Sorrows Of Satan.

Q: Your new album [The Sky's Gone Out] is the first Bauhaus record to be released domestically in the US through a deal with A&M Records...

Daniel: That's right, yeah.

Tones On Tail - "There's Only One!"
Picture sleeve artwork by Daniel Ash
(Beggars Banquet 1982)

Q: Do you know why they didn't include the live album [Press The Eject And Give Me The Tape] with it, as Beggars Banquet did in the UK?

Daniel: They wanted to focus on brand new material for the first album. That was the idea originally, to put the two albums out together. But that was old material which had been coming in drips and drabs on import anyway. They wanted something totally fresh to promote. The live album is being sold separately now anyway. To begin with, it was a limited-edition free record; there were only 25,000 copies printed. Now, it's sold separately with a poster and an extra single.

Q: You've done the cover art for a couple of Bauhaus LPs, and your artwork has been used on a 45 sleeve for your side band [Tones On Tail]. Have you ever had a proper showing of your work?

Daniel: No, not since art school... exam times, you know. I haven't really had any time since Bauhaus started to do that much work. I do intend in a year or so to have some work done. Uhmm... see how it goes. I usually use things that I did about five years ago.

Bauhaus feature from The Face

Q: The music that you're recording as Tones On Tail...

Daniel: It's like a disco hit!

Q: Did you say disco?

Daniel: Yeah, with a difference. But it's disco.

Q: Have you ever performed live as Tones On Tail?

Daniel: No. There's supposed to be a thing going on New Year's Eve, just a fun thing in our hometown. We're all doing different things. I might be doing it then.

Q: Do you still live in Northampton?

Daniel: Yeah, we all do except Peter. He lives in London.

Q: Are you tempted to move to London?

"Bela Lugosi's Dead" (Small Wonder -1979)

Daniel: No. Definitely not! If you live in London, you get sucked up by the whole merry-go-round. It's almost a continuation of touring. It's much better to be away from that.

Q: I want to ask about a band you had previous to Bauhaus... I read somewhere it was called Jack Plug and the Sockets, which is a wonderful name!

Daniel: That band lasted what, five hours?

Q: I've also heard about an early lineup called Jam.

Daniel: That was years and years before. I mean, Kevin was about 12! That was ages ago. 

David J: The one that was more important than those was called the Submerged Tenth [archaic economic terminology for the percentage of the population living in poverty]. It was Kevin and I, and Daniel was going to join. He was rehearsing with us. 

Flyer for this Bauhaus show at the Old Waldorf
with support from TSOL - December 15, 1982

Daniel: I remember going to see the Submerged Tenth, but I arrived too late... for a change! The idea of a punk band was very new at the time. This was in '76, when it was actually happening. And it was very exciting to hear about because punk was very fresh. There were no other bands in our town. There was nothing to do with punk at all. So, it was very new and original. But I missed it. I got there just when they were loading the gear up.

Q: The live reviews I've read in the British music papers make it sound like Bauhaus is usually quite violent towards the audience. But it didn't seem at all like that tonight — not that I was disappointed.

Daniel: Well, sometimes it is like that. Occasionally, that'll be the case. It depends on how the audience reacts. There wasn't that element in the crowd tonight anyway. It'd be a bit pointless to just start belting people just for the sake of it. 

Q: Are there more Bauhaus shows planned after this US tour, or are you going to rest up?

Daniel: We keep saying that we don't intend to ever do this again, two tours one after the other. We'd just done a tour of England, and then we came straight over here. We only had a gap in between of about two weeks.

(Many thanks to Rave-Up reader Rodney Klein who kindly forwarded me this long-lost interview from issue #6)

The Thompson Twins Want To Know Why Passion Is More Important Than Dinosaurs

Originally published in Rave-Up #6 (1983)

Interview by Devorah Ostrov

Alannah Currie, Joe Leeway & Tom Bailey backstage at the
Kabuki Theatre in San Francisco - March 1983
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

As I write this, the Thompson Twins are the biggest thing in pop music. Their latest single, "Love on Your Side," from the album Quick Step & Side Kick, is topping several different charts at once, and tickets for their extensive US and UK tours have sold out. Melody Maker even reported that when Alannah goes out in public, she has to disguise herself as an old hag to avoid being mobbed!

After struggling for several years to get noticed and having undergone a radical change of lineup, this has all happened super-fast! When I first met the band a few months ago, they were a critically praised but not especially well-known pop outfit who'd had a US dance club hit with "In the Name of Love." After the show, Alannah promised me an interview "next time."

"If we're not too famous to talk to fanzines," she added in jest. 

Alannah Currie backstage at the Kabuki - March 1983
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Well, they actually are too famous for fanzines now. But Alannah kept her promise. 

So, prior to their headlining set at the Kabuki, I found myself sitting backstage with Tom Bailey, Joe Leeway, and Alannah Currie discussing their massive rise to fame, and the effect it's had on the band and their fan base.

Tom: It's like, really MEGA! See, we've always been at a cult level...

Joe: It's totally over the top! The last gig we did in Staten Island, we said, "After the encore, no one come up onstage. Please!" And everyone just came up onstage.

Alannah: When it started happening [people getting onstage with the group], it was very spontaneous. We were trying to break down the barriers between the band and the audience. Instead of just being very voyeuristic and watching a band, you've got to join in and help create the event. 

Tom: It was a sudden rush! And I think that was the first break... or one of the first steps away from just playing music. It was the first kind of non-musical event.

Rave-Up: Has the live show itself changed dramatically since I last saw you?

Tom: We haven't really changed it very much because we've been more or less consistently touring. We've had to go through sacking various personnel and getting new people. I mean, in terms of not changing very much, that's quite true. But in terms of dealing with human beings, we've gone through a whole lot just getting this production on the road.

Rave-Up: It does seem as if it's a lot more business-oriented now than it used to be. Does that take some of the fun out of it for you?

Tom Bailey at the Warfield in SF - May 1984
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Alannah: No! Definitely not.

Tom: It's much more exciting! In fact, we are not musicians. We see ourselves perhaps more appropriately as a business.

Alannah: We're more like a production company. We deal with music, and we deal with videos.

Tom: We're a communications company.

Rave-Up: "Love on Your Side" has crossed over to several different charts. What would you attribute that to?

Tom: It's probably because there was no prejudice towards us. I mean, as soon as we arrived [in the US], a lot of black radio stations stopped playing us because they could suddenly see us. We suddenly didn't fit into what their image of a "black band" was all about. Similarly, some AOR stations thought we were a little too risqué visually, so they stopped playing us as well.

Rave-Up: Do you think MTV showing the video for "Lies" on regular rotation helped push the group over here?

Tom: Sure! And that's quite exciting for us because we're just about to release our second video over here [for "Love on Your Side"], and we think it's 100 times more powerful than the "Lies" one.

Rave-Up: You've been so busy lately. Have you been able to give any thought to your next album?

Tom: We haven't really thought too much about our next album because we're touring and promoting Quick Step & Side Kick. We want to see that pushed a little bit more.

Alannah & Tom with their copies of Rave-Up #6
backstage at the Day on the Green - September 1983.
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Joe: We've always been a common-sense band. Basically, we need to consolidate what we're doing at the moment. We won't be going out on a massive tangent, that's for sure. We've just got to consolidate and further push the single.

Rave-Up: I've heard that most of your US shows have sold out.

Tom: In New York, we did two nights at the Ritz!

Joe: There were 400 people locked out at the Ritz, and the weather...

Tom: It was pouring rain! It was so embarrassing.

Rave-Up: Were you expecting that sort of reception over here?

Joe Leeway at the Warfield, San Francisco - May 1984
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Alannah: No!

Joe: We didn't know what it was going to be like. I suppose that's where you have to rely on other people analyzing things for you and saying what you're worth.

A journalist from Lowrider magazine voices his concern about the lack of guitars on Quick Step & Side Kick, which leads to a lively conversation about passion and dinosaurs.

Tom: Guitars sneak into one track, and it's really boring! They took four hours to do something we could have done in 7-1/2 minutes.

Alannah: Guitars can be played really well, but we've had several years of having two guitars, and everything we write having to do with those two guitars. Almost everything that can be done brilliantly on a guitar has been done already — it's not new. Whereas synthesizers are new! With technology, there's more sounds; more differences come out.

Tom: If you're not used to technology, it could seem overbearing. You can over-reflect on the essence of technology, so people use synthesizers to make very stark, bleak sounding music.

Alannah: And then also, you can get some great sounds! You can mix very organic sounds with very synthetic sounds, which is what we're trying to do. So, even if your vocals might be, like ours, sarcastic and a bit cold, or not terribly impassioned... 

Alannah Currie backstage at the Day on the Green - Sept 1983

Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Tom: The vocabulary of emotion in pop music is very cliché. All those "Hey baby, let's get down and groove," or "Hey baby, my life is a misery since you left me," soulful wailings and things... They're all rather empty of emotion. They're just like a formula, you know. I think people who are quite inhibited and let emotions sneak out of them under stress and strain are actually more passionate.

Joe: I don't know what the big deal is, screaming out for passion. We're living in a synthetic age. Passion is no big deal.

Alannah: I have this theory that since the beginning of rock and roll, it's been men doing it, right? And men, as we all know, are emotional cripples because they can't express themselves. They've been brought up not to cry and not to show emotion. So, music is the perfect outlet. And because men have always been in control of the rock and roll business, they write these songs that are a total outlet for their emotions. But they need a stage and a performance to do that! Now that there are more women involved in groups and writing songs, there's also been a change in mental attitudes. It's not so important to go out there and do these massive wailings and screechings anymore, because they're doing that in their day-to-day lives. So, then they start looking for other things to talk about and sing about.

Tom: And in fact, we are quite passionate in a subliminal way.

Alannah: I mean, why is passion far more appreciated than a sense of humor or wit, or something completely off the wall, like dinosaurs? Why is passion more important than dinosaurs?

(Many thanks to Rave-Up reader Rodney Klein who kindly forwarded me this long-lost interview from issue #6)