Originally published in Rave-Up #4 (1982)
Interview by Devorah Ostrov
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| Julian Cope hanging out in the Upper Haight Photo: Sara Brinker |
Julian Cope, lead singer of the Teardrop Explodes — the quirkily poppy/somewhat psychedelic band that he formed four years ago in Liverpool — is a pop star. It's an observation that he doesn't deny. And when Sara and I meet up with Julian during the band's soundcheck at the I-Beam, he is everything a pop star should be: talented, handsome, charming, funny, and intelligent. He's also keen to get outside and explore the Upper Haight. So off we go to have a chat and find a suitable Victorian for Julian to pose in front of.
Q: It seems like when the Teardrop Explodes formed, it was more of an arty band than a pop band. But lately, you're portrayed as just a cute pop singer (see above!). Does that bother you?
Julian: Uhmm... It's fine at the moment because anything that doesn't make sense is fine by me. I didn't start out to form a particularly "arty" thing. I wanted to start something that was real to me, that was honest to me. I never changed because of success or anything.
At one point last year it suddenly made sense commercially [with a clutch of singles in the charts], which made it quite an enjoyable thing. But the main thing was that it was a challenge. The challenge was that people had gotten back into that early '70s thing where you had to be serious to be a pop group. A serious group is just wanking off. It's just people going up to each other saying, "Isn't this great?" Where in actual fact, the best groups...
That's why we started kind of looking back to the '60s. A lot of bands had something to say, but they said it with people who were nice-looking. You didn't have to be repulsive. You didn't have to totally gross out your audience. You could be [Jim] Morrison; you could be Tim Buckley; you could be Lou Reed.
Q: In other words, you could be a teen idol but still be worthwhile.
Julian: Yeah! Traffic, and all those sorts of groups. They were totally weird. I want to be Traffic more than anything else. Sometimes they had big hits, and other times they'd go for two years without a hit. I don't know... I don't sit down to write hits. I've never sat down to write a hit because I know I couldn't do it. I just sit down to write songs, and it's so much more fun when they develop in certain ways. If they happen to be hits, then that's very good.
Q: Some of your songs make pointed references to religion, like "Christ vs. Warhol." And "Bouncing Babys" is supposedly about Jesus. Were you brought up religiously?
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| Advert for the Teardrop Explodes at the I-Beam April 12 & 13, 1982 (From the collection of Kareem Kaddah) |
Julian: No, very unreligiously. I just have a fascination for religious imagery, but I can't get any further into it other than on an observational level. To me, religion is such a waste of time because it's caused so many more deaths than births. But at the same time, they have these really beautiful images, like Christ on a cross — these searing, painful images that seem wasted on religion.
Q: What were you trying to say with the song "Christ vs. Warhol"?
Julian: I was trying to say that there's a fight between the desire to create something great on a Christian level, which is like a 2000-year level, and the Warhol level — the 15-minute thing. I was trying to say that they're both just as valid.
Q: I've read that you left home to study acting in Liverpool. Why didn't you pursue an acting career?
Julian: Umm... The punk thing had just started; I'd heard "Anarchy in the U.K." And I finally found Eric's. It took me three weeks to find Eric's. I left college after about six months, went on the dole, and started hanging around Liverpool trying to form a group.
Q: Your parents must have been furious. "Sent him off to college and now look at him."
Julian: Haha! That's it, yeah! I wasn't allowed home for about eight months — sheared, bleached hair. I even had an earring for a while.
Q: Speaking of your hair... I've also read that you always check car windows to see how your hair looks. Are you really that self-conscious?
Julian: Yeah! You know that line "...mirror hopping..." Maybe it's just a ridiculous ego thing, but I see it more or less... I'm very paranoid about the way I look.
Q: Is that just recently because you're in all the magazines?
Julian: I've been like that since I was about 16 or 17. I thought it was very ironic when I became a kind of pop star because the photos of me, most of the time, are completely the opposite of, say, Duran Duran. They've always got loads of make-up on, and they've always got their cheeks sucked in like this [he strikes a typical and comical Duran Duran pose].
Q: New Sounds, New Styles recently had a game where the object was to get your group to Number 1. But at number 11, the player could get derailed by the message: "Your lead singer thinks he's Scott Walker. Miss one throw to visit a special clinic." It was an obvious dig at your well-known adulation of Scott Walker. Do you get annoyed by stuff like that?
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| The Teardrop Explodes perform "Passionate Friend" on TOTP in 1981 |
Julian: No, not at all. The one good thing is that the music papers have never gotten bored with me. Even when I suddenly changed from being just a singer to being a pop star... I know that it doesn't make sense. It sounds really crass in a way, but... We've been on Top of the Pops, and we were tripping. You know you wouldn't see Duran Duran or Adam Ant doing that.
Q: I saw you do "Passionate Friend" on Top of the Pops...
Julian: Haha! We got banned from Top of the Pops after that. The BBC has a "cut out" department; they cut out articles from all the magazines...
Q: I'm guessing they cut out the interview from The Face that said you were on acid?
Julian: That's real 1984. But it's real funny. We'll get back on it soon enough. Britain's just like... You have to go to Liverpool. We started Club Zoo in Liverpool; we did five weeks of gigs there. There were four levels; we played on the bottom level. There was a jazz band on the top floor, videos and other stuff on the second floor, and on the third floor, everybody just crashed. Some nights, people weren't watching us. We'd play in front of 200 people because they knew we'd be on for another five weeks. Also, there were video cameras all over the place, so you could be in any part of the club and see the other floors. So, if I was freaking out, they could come down and watch it.
Q: I know you're probably sick of talking about it, but could you tell us a little about your earlier group, the Crucial Three?
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| Julian Cope on the cover of The Face - Nov 1981 |
Julian: Mac [Ian McCulloch from Echo and the Bunnymen], Pete [Wylie from Wah! Heat] and I all met at a Clash gig — the first Clash gig at Eric's on May 5th, 1977. And we said, "Yeah, let's form a group!" We didn't want to form a punky group. We wanted to form a group that was... The Crucial Three was meant to be more like a reggae sort of thing.
Q: Did Pete Wylie come up with the name?
Julian: Yeah! Great name! The whole thing was to be legendary. "We won't do anything, but in three years people will say we're legendary." And it happened. I mean, it was obvious that it was going to happen. It was so funny that the three of us became the leaders of the three main weird bands in Liverpool. And there's never been a point since then that the Crucial Three have been in the same room together. The closest we got... There's this place in Liverpool called the Ministry of Love where we all rehearse, and there was one point where Mac and I were in the same room and Pete was next door.
Q: I've heard that the Crucial Three was horrible because all three of you wanted to be in charge.
Julian: Oh, it was crap. It would have worked if they'd made me the lead singer. But Mac had to have a go. I was playing bass, and Pete was singing too. We were always introducing these things... It didn't get anywhere at all.
Q: Are you still on good terms with the guys from Echo and the Bunnymen?
Julian: Yeah, Pete de Freitas [Echo and the Bunnymen drummer] shares my flat at the moment. The Bunnymen never used to take any drugs — except Pete. And Pete used to take so many. We used to go down to Rockfield... The Bunnymen would be recording while we were rehearsing. We would take acid and have the best time!
I remember once Pete was dressed like a woodland nymph, he had all these vine leaf things that he'd gotten from this tree. He'd joined them all up and had them around his head. Then he had this kind of toga thing made out of two sheets. We were running around... What was I? Oh, I had my nightshirt on, and my Vietnamese gun battle thing. I was doing the "Afghan Rebel" kind of image. And Gary [Dwyer, Teardrop Explodes drummer] was being a mountain lion trying to attack us. It sounds totally bizarre...
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| Go to www.headheritage.co.uk for more info about Julian & to purchase merchandise like Head-On, his 1994 autobiography. |
Q: Seems like perfectly reasonable behavior.
Julian: It went on for four hours. We just ran around this table for four hours!
Q: Do your parents read all the articles about you? That interview in The Face must have worried them.
Julian: I tell them what to read and what not to read. They don't think that I take any drugs at all. I say, "Don't read this interview, it's full of swearing." And my mother says, "Okay." I know she doesn't know I take drugs because if she knew, she'd die.
Q: Are you still working with Bill Drummond [manager/producer/Zoo Records founder]?
Julian: Yes, but he's not managing us anymore. He's just going to be publishing and doing special projects. My solo album will be coming out on Zoo.
Q: Solo album? What's happening?
Julian: I've got so many songs that I want to do that don't fit in with Teardrop Explodes. I've got a good twenty-six songs.
Q: That's a double album.
Julian: I was thinking that maybe a Julian Cope solo album should be so over the top... I'd like to start doing it a month or so after our third album. We'll be doing that one in July. But I'm really not sure how my contract stands at the moment.
