Specimen Become Americanized! Ollie Wisdom Talks About The Shake-Up Of Death Rock's Most Glamorous Group.

Published in Rave-Up #11 (1986)
By Devorah Ostrov

Specimen - San Francisco lineup circa 1985

L-R: Kimba, Ollie Wisdom, Smeg, Tim Huthert & Gere Fennelly

(photographer unknown)

The original Specimen was formed some years ago in England. Looking like rejects from a less than B-grade horror movie, they made a name for themselves amongst fashion conscious UK club-goers. And between their image, their records, and their club (The Batcave), they gave the music press (who labeled the innovative new scene "Death Rock") plenty to write about.

When things got beyond their control, lead singer and mastermind Ollie Wisdom moved operations to San Francisco. Since all the other British members chose to stay in London, Ollie reconstructed the band with musicians from the Bay Area: Gere Fennelly on keyboards, Smeg on guitar, Kimba on bass, and Jeffrey St. Pierre (who recently replaced Tim Huthert) on drums. Once again, Specimen is going full force!

* * *

"Indestructable" b/w "Brainburst!" picture sleeve 45

(Rampant Records 1986)

Ollie Wisdom's flat resembles a Specimen show. Multi-colored crepe paper and plastic beads dangle from the ceiling; various parts of baby dolls are strewn about the floor. As we make ourselves comfy amid the rubble, Ollie switches on the tape player and the final mix of the new Specimen demo blasts forth...

Ollie: We're doing four singles right now. The first is "Indestructable"/"Brainburst!" The other songs on the tape are "Pink and Perfect," "Red Velvet Crush on You," and "Miss You" — which is the ballady one. We're also making a film for it. When 

we finish the record, we'll edit the film to it, and it should be shown on MTV. We've also got alternative videos, in which we've been doing animation and stuff, which will go out to the clubs.

Rave-Up: Are you producing the record yourself?

Ollie: Yeah, I've done all the production on it and written all the songs for it. And it's come out great! I'm really pleased with it. I've never had the chance to do that in the studio before.

Rave-Up: The previous Specimen records were all done by producers telling you what to do?

Flyer for Specimen at Perkins Palace

March 3, 1984

Ollie: Very much so! It was a very necessary thing to go through, as well. When you first get let loose in a 24-track recording studio, which costs like $70 an hour, you've got to have some idea of what you're going for. Without what I learnt from past experiences, good and bad, I couldn't have done it.

Rave-Up: Is it because you're producing it yourself that the songs sound poppier?

Ollie: I don't know if it sounds poppier. It's not so guitar-oriented; it's more song-oriented. The songs I played you are most likely going to be the singles, so they're the more poppy of the songs anyway.

Rave-Up: What made you move to San Francisco? Were you bored with London?

Ollie: Yeah, I was really bored. There's nothing happening in London at the moment. Everybody just tries to make out like there is.

Rave-Up: Why San Francisco over anywhere else?

Ollie: I would never even consider living in Los Angeles. New York presents a whole load of problems that San Francisco doesn't. And San Francisco's got sunshine. Unfortunately, the process of moving split the band up somewhat.

Rave-Up: You mean like all the original band members are still over there, and you're over here?

Specimen - San Francisco lineup circa 1986

L-R: Jeffrey St. Pierre, Smeg, Ollie Wisdom, Kimba, Gere Fennelly

Ollie: But they're all over there not doing very much, unfortunately.

Rave-Up: So, what happened?

Ollie: Well, we had just issued an EP ["Sharp Teeth"] on a brand-new label [The Trust] in England. We'd spent a year getting out of our London Records deal; we wouldn't let them make us into the pop band they wanted us to be. And I said, "Look, I'm not going to do an album with Trust," which is what they wanted us to do. Other people wanted to go for it. They said, "Stay here and do this album." I said, "If that's what you want, keep it." I don't regret it in the slightest.

Rave-Up: Did you think about not calling the new group Specimen?

Ollie: It had occurred to me to change the name of the band, but I didn't see much point. When the original Specimen played Perkins Palace in LA, Jon [Klein, guitarist] and I went out to do a radio interview just after the soundcheck. There was a queue right around the block. We walked right past this whole lot — not one person recognized us!
     I figure that they still don't really know the difference. You've got to use whatever you have to your advantage. There's no point in cutting your wrists for integrity's sake.

Rave-Up: Don't you think it's superficial for your fans not to notice the difference?

Ollie: No, not if they come to enjoy the show anyway. The people that really got into us early on, they know the difference. Some of them whisper, "It's not the same band..." Of course, we're not the same band. We're not trying to be the same band. But it doesn't stop it from being a lot of fun!

Rave-Up: The personalities of the new band members must be vastly different from the old members. Are American musicians easier to work with?

Ollie Wisdom

(photographer unknown)

Ollie: In some ways. I find that Americans are a bit more open to suggestion and a bit more excitable when something excites them. The British have seen it all before, or think they have, so they're not going to appear to be excited, even if they are.

Rave-Up: I wonder how the new members feel stepping into a sort of inherited image? What people expect Specimen to be as opposed to what they are...

Ollie: But you see, it's not like they have to step into something. They've just got to be themselves. If they tried to step into something, it would look really awkward. Because they're the right people for the job, so to speak, there's no transformation needed.

Rave-Up: I always saw Specimen as a fun, almost cartoonish group. But the British press always wrote about you guys as the leaders of the death-rock scene, which made you sound a bit doomy and dark.

Ollie: Yes, well, you saw much more what it was. People just took the name, The Batcave, and misconstrued it. It was never serious. It was never an "Oh, we're death-rock" kind of thing.

Rave-Up: Do you resent having your creative, fun ideas turned into what the press wanted you to be?

Ollie: No, not really. I mean, you don't think about it. You just carry on and try to put a few people right along the way.

Rave-Up: Have you thought about doing a club here, along the lines of The Batcave?

Poster for the 25th-anniversary 

celebration of the London Batcave
July 11, 2008

Ollie: I don't want to do anything as regular as a nightclub. It's something I could always fall back on if I need the money! But no, I don't really want to. The Batcave was great. Let it rest in peace.

Rave-Up: One last question, did you have any trouble getting through immigration? Or did you try to look "normal"?

Ollie: Even when I try to look normal, I don't! But I have a "gimp" outfit — it's my disguise to get past immigration. It consists of a pair of corduroy trousers, a little jacket, tennis shoes, a beige shirt, no nail varnish, no make-up at all, no jewelry. No "un-manly" things in my suitcase. It's such a performance, but it worked!  

Rave-Up: What if someone had recognized you?

Ollie: Even you wouldn't recognize me!

Marky Ramone: In 1992 I Talked To The Ramones Drummer About "Mondo Bizarro"

Originally published in American Music Press (October 1992)
By Devorah Ostrov

Legend has it that punk rock began on July 4, 1976. On that perfectly patriotic date, the Ramones — formed some two years previously in Forest Hills, NY — made their pivotal UK debut at the Roundhouse in London. And pretty much every Brit kid who went on to form a furiously fast, three-chord band was in the crowd that night. "We had hoped that the kids would see us and feel they could do it too," commented guitarist Johnny Ramone at the time.

The Ramones' Mondo Bizarro tour comes to

Cologne, Germany - December 5, 1992

Sixteen years and more than a dozen albums later, the Ramones are still going strong. The group's latest offering (and their first on Radioactive Records) is called Mondo Bizarro, and it features some of their finest material in a decade.

"It's a good one!" declares drummer Marky Ramone when I call him in New York. "We took our time. We selected the best songs. We practiced them a lot. And this is the end result."

"Poison Heart," the first single release, is a classic sounding pop tune co-written by Daniel Rey and former Ramones' bassist Dee Dee (who left the band in 1989 and took some pains to distance himself from the guys by issuing a solo LP as Dee Dee King).

Surprisingly, Dee Dee also co-wrote (again with Rey) two other songs — "Strength to Endure" and "Main Man" — both sung by his replacement, C.J. So, they don't hate Dee Dee and vice-versa?

"No! No way!" exclaims Marky (who replaced original drummer Tommy Ramone in 1978, after stints with Dust, Wayne County's Back Street Boys, and Richard Hell's Voidoids). "Maybe, in the beginning, there was a little animosity because he left us. But it all worked out. We're still friendly with him; he's still friendly with us. He's a Ramone!"

Marky Ramone - recent publicity photo

Another big surprise is the amount of radio play "Poison Heart" is receiving. While lack of airplay was once the bane of the Ramones' existence, Bay Area station Live 105 (KITS) is spinning the song so often you could actually get sick of it.

"It's weird, right!" laughs Marky. "It's strange because when we came out, we were just a bunch of aliens. There was no one like us, so they were afraid of us. And a lot of radio stations didn't want to play us because we went against the grain. You had your Foreigner, your Journey, your Fleetwood Mac... rock was really soft at that point."

He continues, "Eventually, you had all these bands wearing leather jackets and holes in their pants. They started playing fast songs and, obviously, they were influenced by us. These people admit it. And now, I guess, a lot of people who owe us are saying, 'Maybe it's the Ramones time.'"

Is he talking about Skid Row covering "Psycho Therapy" on the "B-Side Ourselves" EP?

"And Motorhead did 'Ramones' on their last album. And Guns N' Roses always wear our t-shirts, and they've always said that we're one of their favorite bands. I don't necessarily like or dislike these bands, that's just their way of showing gratitude to us. Now they're playing 'Poison Heart,' which is great. But I hope they recognize the fact that there's other songs on the album that are just as good."

L-R: Joey Ramone, C.J. Ramone, Johnny Ramone & Marky Ramone

Photos from the Mondo Bizarro CD

Marky particularly likes the opening track, "Censorshit." Written by vocalist Joey Ramone, the lyrics reference a certain politician's wife and those irritating P.M.R.C. stickers that alert us to the imagined evil lurking in our favorite records: "Tipper, what's that sticker sticking on my CD?/Is that some kind of warning to protect me?/Freedom of choice needs a stronger, stronger voice/You can stamp out the source, but you can't stop creative thoughts..."

Dust - Marky Ramone (Marc Bell), Kenny Aaronson & Richie Wise

"We feel censorship is very un-American," asserts Marky. "I think a conservative minority is trying to push their view on the majority of the country."

"We were at the Berlin Wall when it came down," he adds. "I chipped away pieces of the wall for myself! There's no more communism in Russia, so why the hell are they gonna have censorship here?"

What does he think about the possibility that Tipper Gore (co-founder of the P.M.R.C. and wife of Bill Clinton's running mate, Al Gore) might soon be in the White House?

"Clinton's opposed to censorship," Marky notes. "When he gets in, he's probably gonna tell her to cool off. But if she screws around during the first four years, he'd better watch out. The [entertainment] industry will go against him and not vote for him in four years. And then he'll lose because the industry has a lot of influence."

Poster for two shows in Mexico City - 1992

Will he be voting for Clinton?

"Yeah, I have to," Marky responds a little reluctantly.

Getting back to Mondo Bizarro, fans of the group's early efforts will enjoy "Heidi is a Headcase," a direct descendant of "Suzy is a Headbanger," as well as the '60s surf-inspired sounds of "Touring" — so reminiscent of Jan and Dean, it could be a cover!

"That's what's so good about that song," observes Marky. "It could be a cover, but it isn't!"

Speaking of covers... Known for their speeded-up interpretations of simplistic pop ditties, another shocker on Mondo Bizarro is their cover of the Doors' "Take It as It Comes." Which is — how do I phrase this properly? — sort of complicated with oodles of keyboards!

How did that happen?

"One day, John said, 'Let's do a Doors' song.' And I said, 'What!?' I didn't wanna do 'Light My Fire.' But when he brought in this obscure album track, I agreed it was a good idea. It wasn't a single, and no one has really heard of it. We just put our style to it, and that's what happened. Very simple."

Have any of the surviving Doors heard their version?

Richard Hell & the Voidoids - featuring Marky Ramone (Marc Bell) 

Photo by Kate Simon (from the "Blank Generation" 45)

"Ray Manzarek… He's flattered that we did it. As a matter of fact, we were gonna have him on keyboards, but he said he doesn't play music anymore. We used some other guy from some other band [Joe McGinty, ex-Psychedelic Furs]."

Marky (in collaboration with a mysterious character called Skinny Bones) also supplies two new numbers: "Anxiety" and "The Job That Ate My Brain." The first is a bit of stressed-out silliness; however, the second is an interesting tale about day-job woes: "Out of bed at 6:15, in a rush and you can't think/Gotta catch the bus and train, I'm in a rush and feelin' insane/I can't take this crazy pace, I've become a mental case/Yeah, this is the job that ate my brain..."

Promo poster for Mondo Bizarro

(Radioactive Records - 1992)

"In this fast-paced society, there's a lot of things that people wanna do," elaborates Marky. "They've got families to raise, they want to relax, they want to play, but they gotta get up and work for some company. They don't have time for themselves. It sucks!"

That last sentiment sounds like Marky is speaking from personal experience. Has he ever held down a day-job?

"I used to mix cement. I used to put up wrought-iron gates... y'know, construction stuff."

When was this?

He briefly falters. "This was before... this was around... after I left the Ramones in '83. For four years, I was doing stuff like that because I didn't wanna be involved with the music business anymore."

I'd been wondering how to bring up his temporary departure from the group (during which he was replaced by Richie Ramone). From what I've read, it wasn't pretty. Creem magazine documented one especially divisive moment: "Johnny is on the phone, obviously agitated, saying things like, 'I'm pissed about this! … If he doesn't wanna do it...!' Turns out that drummer Marky has pulled a walkout with the Toronto date just three days away."

"Me and Dee Dee..." Marky starts to explain, then hesitates. It's clearly still a sensitive subject.

The Ramones

L-R: C.J., Johnny, Marky, and Joey

"He had a drug problem and I had a drinking problem, and it was getting to me. It was winning, y'know. I ended up drunk every day. So, I turned around one day and thought, What's more important? Acting like a jerk and embarrassing myself? Getting up off the floor every morning? Or playing in a band that I like? So, I just stopped. I went away for a while and did straight jobs just to get back to some other kind of reality."

What made him finally return to the fold?

"Well... John, ah... called me one day..." says Marky, still choosing his words carefully. "Richie wasn't working out, and he asked me to come back in the band. And that was it."

Marky Ramone on the cover of Modern Drummer

February 2014

Spin magazine recently acknowledged the Ramones' impact by naming them one of the most significant bands in rock history (the list of seven also includes Jimi Hendrix, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, and the Sex Pistols).

According to Spin: "No group in the last eighteen years has been more important or more influential, including the Sex Pistols (who probably couldn't have existed without the Ramones). There's a real straight line from the Ramones to Nirvana, for anyone who'd care to trace it."

How did that make them feel?

"We were very flattered," states Marky.

The Ramones are an American institution, I point out.

"That's what I hear, but I don't know what it means. I'd just like to sell a few more copies of our new album. Y'know what I mean? That would be nice."


* You can read my other interviews with the Ramones here:
devorahostrov.blogspot.com/2019/02/the-ramones-turn-20-release-all-covers
devorahostrov.blogspot.com/2017/12/the-ramones-this-january-1978-interview
devorahostrov.blogspot.com/2017/09/the-last-time-i-talked-to-joey-ramone