The Heavy Metal Thunder of REDD KROSS: A Pre-Slims/Post-Fillmore Rock 'N' Roll Roundup With Steven & Jeff McDonald

Originally published in Teenage Kicks #2 (Fall 1997)
By Devorah Ostrov

Redd Kross - Show World back cover photo

L-R: Eddie, Steven, Jeff, Brian

Redd Kross (back when it was spelled Red Cross) played their very first show in 1978, opening for Black Flag (back when the lineup didn't include Henry Rollins) at a party in Redondo Beach. Their first "real" gig had them again opening for Black Flag (and UXA) at the Hong Kong Café in Hollywood. And for their next appearance, they opened for the Germs (back when Darby was alive). Guitarist/vocalist Jeff McDonald was 14 at the time. His brother, bassist/vocalist Steven, was 11.

But you probably know all that. So, we'll skip ahead to the present where the band (which now includes guitarist Eddie Kurdziel and drummer Brian Reitzell; keyboardist Gere Fennelly recently left the group) has a terrific new album called Show World (on the British indie label This Way Up) to talk about. And as we shall see, it is in no way heavy metal!

Redd Kross on the cover of Bucketfull of Brains #48

Teenage Kicks: I saw your show a couple of months ago with the Presidents of the United States of America. It was great 'cause the audience was filled with little kids, all excited and jumping around! That made it so much more fun than being in an audience of jaded 30-year-olds.

Jeff: We did that once before with the Lemonheads. It was a really young audience, a lot of kids with their parents. It was really fun!

Teenage Kicks: You've been with This Way Up for a couple of albums now. How does it work in terms of recording? Did you record Show World in LA and ship the tapes to England?

Jeff: Normally, we would do it like that. But Steven went to Abbey Road to master it.

Teenage Kicks: The Abbey Road?

Steven: Yeah! It was cool, but I didn't get to go inside Studio 2 'cause Bush was recording.

Teenage Kicks: Was Studio 2 where the Beatles recorded?

Steven: They recorded in all the studios. But Studio 2, which is the mid-size studio, was the one where they did the lion's share of their recordings.

Show World (This Way Up - 1997)

Jeff: I wonder if you saw the studio where the Zombies did Odyssey and Oracle, or Pink Floyd did Piper at the Gates of Dawn?

Steven: Well, I did walk into Studio 3 briefly, but there was a British band recording in there. I don't know who they were. And then I walked into Studio 1, the tracking room in Studio 1, which is...

Jeff: The Sgt. Pepper room.

Steven: It's the "Day in the Life" room, where they did the string section. Mostly, I was in the mastering room, which wasn't built until the '70s. So, the Beatles never mastered anything there.

Teenage Kicks: I want to talk about the heavy metal leanings I detect on Show World...

Jeff: Heavy metal?! That's what Rodney Bingenheimer said! So, to you, "Secret Life" sounds like a Bon Jovi ballad? There's a couple of heavy songs...

Teenage Kicks: Not so much lyrically, but musically...

Jeff: Heavier than Phaseshifter?

The Presidents of the United States of America & Redd Kross

at the Fillmore in SF - April 11, 1997

Steven: Heavier than "Jimmy's Fantasy"? No way! On "Kiss the Goat," which I assume is the main track we're talking about, we use a drop D. It's the first time we've done a drop D, which is...

Jeff: Very heavy metal, very Soundgarden.

Teenage Kicks: But generally, you don't think that Eddie's fondness for Ted Nugent is carrying over into your sound?

Jeff: No. Well, he has his own little position where he exercises a certain amount of...

Eddie Kurdziel in a Fender advert

Steven: I would say this... "Kiss the Goat" is my least favorite song on the record, and it's probably Eddie's most favorite song on the record.

Jeff: But "Kiss the Goat" is Stonesy.

Steven: Yeah, the demo is Stonesier.

Teenage Kicks: I also want to compliment your cover of the Quick's "Pretty Please Me."

Steven: We basically do an exact replica of the Quick. Well, not exactly.

Jeff: It is exactly like the Quick.

Steven: I don't think that's heavy metal...

Teenage Kicks: And I love "Follow the Leader."

Jeff: Which is not a metal song!

Steven: I'm assuming that heavy metal implies... Do you mean in a Sabbath-like sense? Or like a Ratt thing?

Teenage Kicks: Which will get me in less trouble? Like glam/pop metal...

Steven: I could see where "Pretty Please Me" might be mistaken for a Bowie/Cheap Trick deal. The term "heavy metal" just has such a negative implication.

Jeff McDonald (1997)
Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Jeff: Well, y'know what? We were trying to make a metal record, and we failed miserably! Sorry.

Steven: But now, "Follow the Leader," which isn't a heavy metal track...

Jeff: "Follow the Leader," to me, is the exact opposite of heavy metal. It doesn't even have distortion on it!

Steven: At the end it does, but that's like Mudhoney.

Jeff: Pink Floyd...

Steven: The Stooges... Who even termed the phrase "heavy metal"?

Teenage Kicks: I think it came from a William Burroughs' book.

Jeff: I thought it was from Steppenwolf's "Born to be Wild." They say, "Heavy metal thunder..." but I think they're talking in terms of a Harley Davidson or something. Now, the first heavy metal band was... I'd have to say Cream.

Teenage Kicks: Blue Cheer!

Jeff: Cream predates Blue Cheer. "Summertime Blues," their first record was what — '68? Cream predates that.

Steven: No! It was Sabbath and Deep Purple!

Redd Kross on the cover of BAM magazine

Photos: Vicki Berndt

Jeff: Yeah, but... I would say that the two bands which took the original Vanilla Fudge/ Cream/Blue Cheer sound and made it into what would become modern-day heavy metal are Black Sabbath and Deep Purple.

Steven: And Black Sabbath did it in a couple of different ways. They had Master of Reality and Vol. 4, where they sort of perfected that era, and then later with Dio when they did the Heaven and Hell record.

Jeff: That was Van Halen.

Steven: That's not Van Halen.

Jeff: But that's when they went post-Van Halen metal.

Steven: But they sort of created a whole other genre of metal. It was post-Van Halen, but Sabbath did it in such a way that it was once again completely influential to the whole genre of metal music. They recreated metal for the '80s.

Teenage Kicks: That's not exactly what I'm thinking about when I listen to Show World.

Steven: Right, you're thinking of that late-'80s Sunset Strip...

Jeff: And I hated that kind of music!

Show World promo postcard

Steven: The lyrics to "Peach Kelli Pop" [from the band's classic '87 album Neurotica] do nothing but make fun of those people — the assholes at the Rainbow! I think for Jeff, there was a Quick influence, which was a Sunset Strip influence.

Jeff: But that's like 1975.

Steven: '75/76... left over from the glitter era, just pre-punk.

Jeff: Post-New York Dolls/pre-punk rock.

"Secret Life" CD single (This Way Up - 1997)
Photo: Vicki Berndt

Steven: Pre-Van Halen/pre-punk rock/post-New York Dolls Sunset Strip... Which was probably a really dead period for the Sunset Strip, commercially speaking.

Jeff: New York was starting to happen. LA only had like, Sparks.

Teenage Kicks: And the Runaways.

Jeff: But they were slightly post-Sparks.

Steven: Kim Fowley was trying to put something together.

Jeff: Kim Fowley was running the Sunset Strip.

Steven: You've seen Decline 2, right?

Teenage Kicks: Actually, I haven't.

Steven: OK, that's why... I don't wanna harp on the subject, but if you had seen Decline 2, you would know why we are so incredibly defensive about being associated with the words "heavy metal."

Teenage Kicks: But I don't mean it negatively. I really love this record!

Promo for the "Mess Around" single
(This Way Up - 1997)

Steven: Well... Sorry, we were so defensive about it.

Teenage Kicks: So, getting back to Show World, and specifically "Follow the Leader"... Does that song refer to the cult goings-on in Southern California?

Jeff: I think that song predates the mass suicide in San Diego. You have to listen to the lyrics, and you'll find clues. Take the first letter of every third word; every two words take the second letter for five words. Then go back to the formula of first letter/ third word again. Do it like that through the entire song, and there'll be a nice little message.

Steven: Does that include a's and I's?

Jeff: Yeah... I said it right. It does make sense! You'll see.

Teenage Kicks: And what's the deal with the not-very-well-hidden track #14?

Steven: It's really retarded. It was supposed to be like a minute after the record ended.

Teenage Kicks: It's not...

Steven: It's right after the record. It made me sick the day I heard we couldn't change that.

Jeff McDonald, his wife Charlotte Caffey from the Go-Go's & 

Evan Dando from the Lemonheads at a Live 105 show in San Francisco

Photo: Devorah Ostrov

Jeff: Never again will I be involved with a record that has a bonus track on it. I'm just gonna say, "No! Fuck off!"

Steven: Basically, what happened was... We recorded like 17 songs, and we couldn't decide which songs to leave off the record. We originally only wanted to do 12 songs, but when we tried taking songs off, we thought it was unbalanced on some level. So, putting that song — it's actually called "Sick Love" — on the American version was some sort of compromise. We didn't put it on the British version because there's so many singles. There's all these B-sides, so things aren't completely lost.

Redd Kross with Gere Fennelly 
from the "Trance" picture sleeve 45

Photo: Vicki Berndt

Jeff: If you buy every British single, you'll get almost every track we recorded.

Teenage Kicks: That's a lot of money!

Jeff: And y'know... I have to apologize for that, for allowing it to happen. It shouldn't be like that. I can imagine if the tracks are really rare, where it's worth it. I dunno... The single thing is fine, but the bonus track on the various domestic and foreign CDs...

Steven: And it's a bummer for us because what happens is... They want us to make as many bonus tracks as we do tracks for the record.

Jeff: And we end up giving away songs that are way too good to be B-sides.

Steven: Right! We end up giving away songs that we've worked on just much as the single. And especially in America, where we don't have these singles. We felt like the songs were just completely lost. That's why we did the bonus track. But it was supposed to be a minute after the record, so that the record would at least have a 13-song feel to it. I blame someone at our label totally for that.

Teenage Kicks: Do your singles chart in England?

Steven: "Get Out of Myself" charted in the Hot 100, somewhere in the upper 60s. Which is mildly impressive. Especially if you liken it to the US charts. If you were in the 60s in the US Hot 100, you'd be a superstar!

"Stoned" promo CD single

(This Way Up - 1996)

Jeff: You could go gold.

Steven: Over there it's not quite the same, but it's higher than we've ever charted. I dunno about any other chart positions.

Teenage Kicks: Have you toured the UK and/or Europe in support of Show World?

Jeff: Twice. We went over three times, but once was just for one show. We did two actual tours, one with the Foo Fighters...

Steven: Now, they are heavy metal!

Teenage Kicks: People have probably seen you more over there than over here lately!

Steven: In the last five years, definitely. When we signed to This Way Up, we ended up focusing our attention over there and sort of ignored...

Jeff: Neglected...

Steven: Yeah, neglected... not entirely. We toured so long for Phaseshifter — we did three tours of the West Coast for the last album, which was also like three years ago now. But it's a drag because I really like playing in the States, and I really miss concentrating on it.

Foo Fighters and Redd Kross at the Ancienne Belgique

in Brussels, Belgium - June 1, 1997

Teenage Kicks: We were talking about singles earlier... Wasn't "Stoned" supposed to be released as a single over here?

Steven: We tried to get "Stoned" on the radio, but it didn't get played anywhere.

Jeff: Because of the subject matter.

R.I.P. Eddie Kurdziel who passed
away on June 6, 1999.

Steven: It got banned!

Teenage Kicks: They thought you guys were encouraging it?

Jeff: Yeah... I guess I'm too vague for simple people. And I'm not talking about the fans! I'm saying the people in charge of the programming. You have to realize that you're dealing with peabrains.

Teenage Kicks: Finally, what happened to Gere? Was the parting amicable?

Jeff: She was just too busy. She had so many things to do. Being in San Francisco is weird for me because it reminds me of Gere. And I miss Gere. I love Gere! It was traumatic, but I think we're still friends.

Teenage Kicks: Do you miss having a keyboard onstage?

Jeff: Sometimes, but we've adjusted our set, our sound, to not need it right now. But I do miss certain things that we can't do; there's certain places that we can't go musically. We're just playing as a guitar band right now.

* I also interviewed Steven & Jeff about The Spirit of '76. You can find that article here: blogspot.com/2018/04/redd-kross-spirit-of-76