Starz: In 1992 I Tracked Down Guitarist Richie Ranno To Talk About The Band's History & Possible Future

Originally published in American Music Press, 1992
By Devorah Ostrov

Starz publicity photo circa 1977

L-R: Richie Ranno, Joe X. Dube, Michael Lee Smith,

Brenden Harkin, and Peter Sweval

There's a brand new Starz CD at Tower Records! Honest, go look. It's called Requiem (as in a mass sung for the dead), and its thirteen tracks present an assortment of band members, musical styles, and oddities.

The first five songs on Requiem feature this year's lineup — vocalist Michael Lee Smith, guitarists Richie Ranno and Brenden Harkin (all three were with the original group), and drummer Doug Madick (who was in the post-Starz outfit Hellcats). And although it's been some fourteen years since the last official Starz album, the new songs prove that Smith and Ranno are still a hard-to-beat writing team.

"Vidi O.D." displays the duo's sense of sarcasm ("X-rays show there's nothing to see/His head is empty, empty MTV"), while "You Called His Name" and "Rough & Ready" attest to their continued fondness for melodrama and enduring ability to seriously rock.

Capitol Records advertisement for the

band's eponymous debut album

Other cool cuts include the rollicking "Texas" (featuring the classic Starz lineup with bassist Peter Sweval and drummer Joe X. Dube) and live versions of "Night Crawler," "Hold on to the Night," and "(She's Just a) Fallen Angel."

Although Ranno issued Requiem on his own Drastic CD label, the story behind it begins with Metal Blade Records founder Brian Slagel.

A few years ago, Slagel was browsing in a New York music memorabilia emporium when he chanced upon the rare Starz demo Do It with the Lights On.

Evidently, Slagel professed his love of the band to the store clerk, who exclaimed, "Well hey! Richie's a really good friend of mine!"

Ranno's address was handed over, and the man who first put Metallica on vinyl promptly wrote to his hero in the hope of reissuing the entire Starz catalog on CD.

Slagel learned that Capitol Records, the group's original label, still retained the rights to their four studio albums: Starz, Violation, Attention Shoppers! and Coliseum Rock. But Ranno owned the rights to an infamous (but never commercially released) live recording known to record collectors under the ponderous title Live at the Municipal Auditorium, Louisville, March 30, 1978.

Creem magazine - Star's Cars No. 23 featuring Starz!

Metal Blade combined those tracks with others taped at a 1977 show in Cleveland, and in 1989, the label released Live in Action — a terrific tribute to a band that was once within touching distance of being as big as Aerosmith and KISS before it inexplicably disappeared off the face of the earth. (Metal Blade later resolved an on-again/off-again agreement with Capitol to reissue the group's studio albums, and all four are now available on CD.)

The band was wrapping up work on Requiem when I contacted Ranno at a New York recording studio. Interestingly, they were in the very same room that 16 years ago to the month they'd used to record the first Starz album.

Starz at the Lost and Found Saloon in 

San Francisco with American Heartbreak  

December 2, 2005

Ranno was quick to cite Capitol's original mishandling of the live LP as a prime example of what they were up against throughout their career. Intended for "promotional use only," initially only a scant 2,000 copies were printed.

"Promotional meaning that they pressed them up and threw them away," fumes Ranno. "And I'm not kidding! I was in our manager's office... We were done as a band. I was trying to get released from my contract, and the records were piled up in a corner. I said, 'What are you doing with those?' He said, 'We're throwing them out.' So I said, 'I'll take 'em, thanks.' I sold them for $2, whatever. That album goes for $50-$100 now! It became this real rare collectible."

With Metal Blade's release of the live CD, Ranno and Smith — out of touch for a number of years — found themselves talking again.

"We never talked about the band," Ranno points out. "We just talked about our divorces. We'd call each other up about every two weeks and say, 'What's happening with you?' One day he said, 'You know, wherever I go people are going crazy over the Starz thing. Why don't we just make another album?'"

*  *  *

In 1973 Ranno, a Bronx native raised in Teaneck, New Jersey, was playing guitar with the Stories. Unfortunately, he joined the group after they'd had a #1 hit with the soulful "Brother Louie" and only months before they broke up.

Looking Glass - Brandy (You're a Fine Girl)
1998 Sony CD compilation featuring future
members of Starz on the cover.

Meanwhile, in another corner of New Jersey, Sweval and Dube (then-known as Jeff Grob) were recruiting new members for their band the Looking Glass, who's "Brandy (You're a Fine Girl)" had been a #1 hit in 1972. In early '74, Harkin was added on guitar, and Smith, who hailed from Georgia, replaced vocalist Elliot Lurie.

The Looking Glass changed its name to Fallen Angels and recorded two singles for Arista without scoring a hit before they hooked up with the powerful Rock Steady/Aucoin Management Agency (home of KISS).

According to Ranno, it was Sean Delaney, Aucoin's creative genius, who helped them achieve a harder rock sound. And it was Delaney who persuaded them to add a second guitarist. In September 1975, Ranno answered the Fallen Angels' ad in The Village Voice.

"They'd auditioned about 75 guys before I got there," he recalls, "but I was the only one who fit in. I'd been playing for about 30 seconds when I stopped and said, 'What's the matter?' They said, 'You're the first guy we didn't have to tell the chords to.'"

T. Rex, Mott the Hoople, David Bowie, KISS, and Alice Cooper were some of Ranno's favorite bands at the time. But most of all, he adored the British chart-topping glamsters, Slade. "Slade was the most incredible live show I ever saw!" he declares.

Starz and KISS 

It was Ranno's affinity for pop melodies and huge hooks, incorporated into the band's hard rock edge, that became Starz' trademark sound. And down the line, it influenced the likes of Mötley Crüe, Warrant, Bon Jovi, and Cinderella — all of which admit to being Starz fans.

The name Fallen Angels was short-lived. (Ranno mentions a poster advertising a KISS/Fallen Angels gig that's worth big bucks!) By the end of '75, they decided to ditch keyboardist Larry Gonsky (a holdover from the Looking Glass) and change the group's name — again.

Starz drummer Joe X. Dube and

heartthrob vocalist Michael Lee Smith

During our interview, Ranno understandably claimed to be a little fuzzy about who came up with the audacious, misspelled moniker — after all, it had been awhile. However, some reports give full credit to Sean Delaney.

"I think I had a star earring," reflects Ranno. "I always wore a star necklace, and I had stars on my guitar neck. Brenden wore a star around his neck too. The management company said, 'You guys have stars on everything. Let's go with that.'"

At first, the band rejected the proposal. Ranno remembers: "We said, 'Nah! We don't like the way that sounds.' But we started fooling around with different ideas. Stars with an 's' was unacceptable. Somebody said 'z,' and that was it."

Heartthrob vocalist Smith (brother of teen-dream Rex Smith), gave a more scandalous account of the group's name in the January 1977 issue of Creem magazine: "It was one of those things where we were all hanging around late one night, doing various things, substances, and the next morning we were Starz. It just dropped from out of the sky."

Recorded at the Record Plant with producer Jack Douglas, the band's self-titled, hard and heavy debut LP was released in August 1976. It easily contained at least three strong contenders for radio airplay: the power-packed "Detroit Girls," the melodic "(She's Just a) Fallen Angel," and the dramatic "Pull the Plug" (supposedly based on the story of Karen Ann Quinlan). Capitol decided to push — absolutely nothing!

Capitol Records ad for the Violation LP

"Creatively we knew what we were doing," emphasizes Ranno. "We knew when it was good and when it was bad. We knew that 'Detroit Girls' was a hit, and we knew that 'Fallen Angel' was a hit. But they [the collective mind of the record company] didn't know it. I said, 'Doesn't it have a great hook?' And they said, 'Nobody plays that kind of stuff.'"

The group got a second chance in 1977 with the equally hard-hitting Violation album — loosely based around the concept of a near-future world where rock 'n' roll is one of many violations. But again, the label told them there were no singles. Apparently, it was just a fluke that "Cherry Baby," the LP's catchy opening track, climbed to #33 on the Billboard national chart.

A decade later, Kerrang magazine would rank Starz at #74 and Violation at #82 in its list of the 100 greatest heavy metal albums of all time. But back then, no one could blame the guys if they were beginning to feel like a "tax write-off."

"Sometimes that's what we use to think," acknowledges Ranno. "Capitol put a lot of money into us, but not in the right places. The best advertisement you could have in the '70s was a hit single, but they didn't believe that a hard rock band could have a hit single."

Joe X. Dube endorses Tama Drums

The group's third offering, Attention Shoppers!, was issued in January 1978. Recorded at New York's Secret Sound Studios and self-produced by the band, Ranno considers the LP — which takes an almost power pop approach to some material — to be their weakest effort.

"They convinced us that we had to do an album like Attention Shoppers!" he asserts. "And even then, they said, 'These songs can't be hits.' We thought, 'Great, now we'll lose our hard rock audience.' People tell me that they love Attention Shoppers! but I can't believe it. I thought 'Hold on to the Night' was a good song; we kinda had a slight pop side there. I thought 'Third Time's a Charm' was good because it was like a ballad. And I liked 'Johnny All Alone' because it was kinda psychedelic, kinda 'Pull the Plug'-ish. Other than that... I don't know."

Ranno continues, "I really wanted to do another hard rock album, get that heavy guitar thing going — which was what Coliseum Rock [their fourth LP, with bassist Orville Davis and guitarist Bobby Messano replacing Sweval and Harkin] was a reaction to. Every album was just a reaction to the previous one."

Although they didn't always see eye to eye with their label, Capitol didn't skimp on the band's stage production and pyrotechnics. "Our logo would rise up in the air with fireworks going off underneath it," enthuses Ranno about one pricey gimmick. "It looked like a spaceship!"

And there was no question that Starz consistently excelled when it came to playing live. One press release observed that live performances were the group's "greatest asset."

"When everyone was wearing blue jeans, we dressed really wild," states Ranno, "like six-inch-high platform boots that went up to our knees. Not quite the glitter rock look, but real fancy. And our movements were always choreographed. We were the only band, other than KISS, who were doing that. The kids loved it!"

Comic book-style ad for Attention Shoppers! 

In 1979, fed up with their label's apathy and tired of disco saturated airwaves ("It was disco on TV, disco in the car..."), Starz pretty much called it quits.

Over the next couple of years, several comebacks were attempted with different combinations of band members. But nothing gelled until Ranno and Smith, along with drummer Doug Madick and bassist Peter Scance resurfaced as Hellcats.

A five-track Hellcats' EP was issued on Radio Records in 1982, which Kerrang! termed: "A gloriously rowdy selection of hard rock tunes."

But... "Four weeks later, the owner of the record company disappeared, never to be heard from again," laments Ranno. "Atlantic Records [distributor of the indie label] dumped all the Hellcats records, and that was the end of that band."

In 1987 Ranno took another stab at Hellcats, replacing Smith (who had moved to California) with the previously unknown Perry Jones on vocals. Kerrang! (usually a staunch supporter of all things Starz related) described this lineup's one LP as "genuinely innocuous."

Nothing more was heard from the guys until the fateful day when Brian Slagel came across that dusty demo. Regarding future plans for Starz, Ranno says, "anything's possible!"

He adds, "We have good memories. We felt great about Starz and each other. We only stopped playing because of the lack of success. That's really what it boiled down to. We just couldn't do it anymore. And actually, we weren't that unsuccessful."

Richie Ranno: "Our logo would rise up in the air with fireworks going off

underneath it. It looked like a spaceship."

While Buzzcocks Toured The USA In Support Of Their 1996 CD "All Set," Their Record Company Abruptly Folded.

By Devorah Ostrov

Buzzcocks are coming.
(circa 1979 poster)

It was Tuesday, July 23, 1996 when Buzzcocks pulled into San Francisco on the West Coast leg of a 26-date US tour in support of their new CD All Set.

The group, formed by Pete Shelley and Howard Devoto in 1976 after they saw the Sex Pistols, was headlining Bimbos that night but their label, I.R.S. Records, had abruptly folded a few days earlier, leaving the band without financial backing and the CD with no promotion.

I found Pete standing alone and unrecognized in the middle of the club following their soundcheck. Surprisingly upbeat given the circumstances, and suddenly unburdened of any previously arranged constraints on his time, Pete was happy to spend an hour chatting with a fanzine writer. According to Pete, things had been going well before I.R.S. closed its doors, with sold-out shows in New York and Boston.

Q: Were you given any indication that this was going to happen while the band was on tour?

PETE: None whatsoever. Originally, I.R.S. were trying to wrest themselves away from EMI. But the financial backing fell through. So, EMI have just swallowed it up.

Buzzcocks at the time of this interview - I.R.S. promo pic

Tony Barber, Steve Diggle, Pete Shelley, Philip Barker

Q: What's going to happen?

PETE: I have no idea! We're still waiting on the outcome of it. We don't know if we'll get put onto one of the "EMI group of companies" or if we'll go off to Miles Copeland's new label.

Q: He has a new label?

PETE: He has a new one, which will be coming out through... EMI [laughs]. It's all a corporate thing!

Q: You're not completely out in the cold, then?

PETE: No. Well... we don't know who we're with yet.

Q: When you were on LIVE 105 earlier, you played "Totally from the Heart" and "What Am I Supposed to Do" off the new CD. Are those the two songs that you're pushing?

PETE: Well... they were. I think the 45 release has been stalled. It's on hold.

Q: Was there supposed to be a video for one of the songs?

PETE: There was... for "Totally from the Heart." We were supposed to shoot it before we started the tour, but then it got changed to the end of the tour.

Japanese All Set CD (Real Cool Records - 1996)

Contains three additional songs written by Steve Diggle

Q: And now it's too late?

PETE: It doesn't look like it's going to happen.

Q: The songs on All Set are every bit as good as the material on the earlier Buzzcocks' LPs. It's funny, I never expect a band that's been around for so long to be as good as they were in the beginning.

PETE: It's a rare thing but it is possible.

Q: "Totally from the Heart" is such a great pop song! I sort of wish there was a lyric sheet, as I'm sure I'm missing some of the nuances.

PETE: I never liked having lyrics inside the booklet. People don't get the chance to make up their own minds about what I'm singing about.

Q: That's true. But your lyrics are so full of clever wordplay, I would think you'd want people to know exactly what you're saying.

PETE: In Japan, they always include lyric sheets.

Q: That's understandable!

The classic 1970s Buzzcocks lineup with Steve Garvey & John Maher

PETE: Yes! But this time, surprisingly, the record company in Japan sent over a copy of all the lyrics, and there were surprisingly few alterations.

Q: Do they make big mistakes?

PETE: Sometimes [laughs].

Q: Is the group popular in Japan?

PETE: Well, we've been over there three or four times. And we're going back over in September to do six shows.

UA advert for the "Orgasm Addict" 45

Q: Even without record company support?

PETE: It's a different record company in Japan. We're signed to Real Cool Records; we got a split deal.

Q: That was lucky! The band had been broken up for eight years when it reformed in 1989. I read somewhere that the release of the Product boxset inspired you to get back together. Is that true?

PETE: Yes, it was concurrent with that. There were rumors that we were back together, and we started getting offers. We had an offer from our agent in the States. He said, "How come you haven't been in touch?" And we said, "Well, the band's not exactly back together." He offered us a tour and we said, "Okay, we'll give it a try." So, the original band got back together.

Q: What happened to [drummer] John Maher and [bassist] Steve Garvey after that? Why did they decide to leave again?

PETE: It takes it out of you a bit — touring. They have their home pursuits. They're home-based.

Q: Is Buzzcocks a day-to-day concern now, or do you just get together to record and tour?

PETE: It's a day-to-day thing. It's a consuming passion!

"Ever Fallen in Love" lyrics 

Smash Hits magazine

Q: If I'm not mistaken, a few days ago it was the band's 20th anniversary.

PETE: That's right, yes, last Saturday! We were playing in Vancouver.

Q: Did you do anything special?

PETE: I think we drank rather more than we should have done! Apart from that, no. We just had a good show.

Q: The story goes that you and Howard Devoto were in school together when you formed the group.

PETE: In college... I was doing electronics, and Howard was doing Humanities.

Q: At the Bolton Institute of Technology?

PETE: That's right. Well researched.

Q: Howard had put a notice up saying he was looking to form a band?

PETE: Yes.

Q: And you were the only one who responded?

PETE: Uhmm... There were a few others. There was one guy who used to play bass. We used to rehearse on Wednesday afternoons in his bedroom. Although, unfortunately, some weeks we couldn't rehearse because his father was working nightshifts and sleeping during the day. But then it just petered out, and it was just me and Howard writing songs together.

Buzzcocks at the Roxy Club

Q: You also did some recording prior to that, back in '74?

PETE: Well... It was just a home recording. I was just messing about.

Q: And you used a homemade oscillator for that?

PETE: Yes! It was in a hobby magazine. So, I got my soldering iron out and built it. I made a little printed circuit board. It was all open, and I found that if I actually touched the components, it would change the nature of the... noise.

Q: Were you into German bands at the time? Kraftwerk, Tangerine Dream, Can...

PETE (nods and smiles): Yeah! I was well into Krautrock.

Q: Your home recording was released in 1980 as Sky Yen. How did that come about?

PETE: A friend [Francis Cookson] and I started a record company to put out more... uh... obscure pieces of music — Groovy Records. That was our second release.

Q: The early history of Buzzcocks really starts with you and Howard going to London to see the Sex Pistols in 1976. Can you tell me about that?

PETE: Yes, we saw a review. It must have been the end of February, the last week of February. We saw a review of this band called the Sex Pistols who had played at the Marquee. They were bad and nobody liked them. And they did a cover of "No Fun." Me and Howard were both big Stooges fans, so we thought it would be a good idea to check them out. See what they were like. See what the potential competition was like. So, we went down to London and saw two shows. We got to chatting with them and found out that they wanted to do some shows outside of London.

Early Buzzcocks lineup with Howard Devoto

Q: So, you and Howard arranged a show in Manchester?

PETE: At the time, Howard was doing the pop-rock column in the local listings magazine. He hunted around and found that we could hire this little hall [the Lesser Free Trade Hall]. Not the big one [the Free Trade Hall], that's where the Halle Orchestra play. We could get it for about £32 a night. We thought, "We're getting a PA and some lights — there's £2. And we can get the Sex Pistols to come up, and we can play with them!" Unfortunately, we didn't get a band together by the time of the first show, which was June 4th. But by the second show on July 20th, we had the bass player [Steve Diggle] and the drummer [John Maher] — and we were in action!

Q: Is it true that Steve Diggle was supposed to meet up with someone else at that first Pistols' show, but in a case of mistaken identity Malcolm McLaren introduced him to you?

Pete Shelley:

"I think we tended to see the dark cloud

rather than the silver lining."

PETE: Yes, Steve had arranged to meet up with someone outside the Free Trade Hall because there was a bar nearby. He was stood outside, and I was in the box office taking the money. Malcolm McLaren went outside while the support band was on. There was a little blackboard with "Live From London: The Sex Pistols!" chalked on it, and he was doing his showman routine: "Roll up! Roll up! Come see this band! They're really great!" He knew we were looking for a bass player, and he went over to talk to this guy who was waiting to meet someone. He said, "Are you the bass player?" And this guy said, "Yes." Malcolm came back to the box office window and said, "Here's your new bass player! His name's Steve."

Q: Who was Steve really supposed to be meeting? Did they turn out to be anyone famous?

PETE: I dunno. About fifteen minutes later, Steve did come in with another guitarist. It might have been the guitarist he was meant to be meeting. I don't think they did anything.

Q: Were you aware of the emerging punk scene in London when you first saw the Sex Pistols play?

PETE: No. At that time, I don't think there were many other punk bands.

Q: As far as you knew, it was just the Sex Pistols?

PETE: As far as I knew, it was just me and Howard. Until we saw the Sex Pistols. Then we thought, "Oh, there are other people who feel the same way!"

Poster for The Screen on the Green Midnight Special

featuring the Sex Pistols, the Clash & Buzzcocks

Q: Would you describe yourself and Howard as being "angry young men"?

PETE: Uhmm... I think we tended to see the dark cloud rather than the silver lining.

Q: In the beginning, Buzzcocks seemed to purposefully align themselves with the punk movement, even though the press was condemning it as being quite a violent scene.

PETE: There was no violence; that was the strange thing about it. Most of it was exaggerated.

Q: Wasn't someone stabbed at a Buzzcocks' show?

PETE: Yes, but we didn't see it actually happening. The police turned off the PA, but the backline was still working, so I sang "Orgasm Addict" through a megaphone.

Q: Does it surprise you that twenty years on, there's still a punk scene?

PETE: Well, it's quite a simple formula. If we hadn't been doing it, I think somebody else would've invented it.

Q: But the fact that it wasn't supposed to last forever was part of what made it exciting.

Buzzcocks on the cover of

Smash Hits magazine - 1979

PETE: I can see what you mean, but it wasn't exactly like that. The whole idea was that it was supposed to be fun. And you might as well just do it, rather than wait until you learned how to play.

Q: But you guys obviously knew how to play before Buzzcocks.

PETE: Well, secretly... yes. But the whole thing was to make it look like you couldn't really play. To have a certain relaxed attitude, rather than being proficient.

Q: Buzzcocks supported the Sex Pistols at their massive Finsbury Park show a month ago, and in a few weeks the Pistols will be playing the Shoreline Amphitheatre in Mountain View as part of the "Filthy Lucre" tour. But I just want to say how happy I am that you're playing clubs on this tour!

PETE: We're playing clubs out of necessity. We couldn't sell enough tickets to play Shoreline.

Q: But I love that you're still accessible, and fans can still say hello!

PETE: It's the best way to be. I'd hate to be closeted away.

Q: And you guys still have integrity.

PETE: I think the Sex Pistols still have integrity.

Q: Do you?

Pete Shelley: "We started to do demos for a fourth Buzzcocks' 
album and they ended up becoming the Homosapien album."

PETE: Definitely. As well as doing it for the money, there's also the thing that they wanna have a final farewell as a band.

Q: Do you think this will be it? Their final farewell?

PETE: I dunno... They may do something else. It's hard to tell.

Q: They haven't even released a new record. At least you guys are still writing and recording new material.

PETE: Oh, yeah. There is that.

Q: Three years ago, you released Trade Test Transmissions, which was the first new Buzzcocks' record since A Different Kind of Tension in 1979. Was it strange going into the studio fourteen years later to record as Buzzcocks?

PETE: No, we'd spent a lot of time in the studio doing demos and things. But trying to convince record companies that this band is back together, and is still credible, has been a bit of an uphill struggle.

Q: Why is that?

PETE: Because record companies more or less like bands that they can manipulate.

Q: And they can't manipulate you guys?

PETE: Well, they haven't really tried all that hard. But I think that's what's at the back of their minds.

Poster advertising Buzzcocks, Siouxsie & the Banshees,

and Subway Sect at the Roundhouse

Q: You're saying that the band is prepared to stick to its guns and do what it thinks is best?

PETE: Yeah. Which is what punk is all about, not being swayed from your convictions.

Q: Around the time of the Love Bites LP, some longtime fans and music writers criticized the group for "selling-out." Did that worry you?

PETE: I didn't pay much attention to it. It's a thing which always happens as soon as somebody has an idea, the next wave of people come along and try to dogmatize it. And anybody who doesn't agree with their definition is a heretic. All kinds of bands have been said to have sold-out. Like the Clash singing "I'm So Bored with the USA" and spending so much time over here.

My autographed copy of A Different Kind of Tension ❤

Q: Why did Buzzcocks break-up in 1981?

PETE: Well, surprisingly... our record company [United Artists] got eaten up by EMI! And we weren't getting along with the people at EMI, and we ran out of money. Things were going nowhere fast. We started to do demos for a fourth Buzzcocks' album, and they ended up becoming the Homosapien album.

Q: So, some of the songs on your first solo album would have been on the fourth Buzzcocks' LP?

PETE: Yes.

Q: Are there recordings of Buzzcocks doing the song "Homosapien"?

PETE: No, not as far as I know.

Q: With the Homosapien LP, it seems like you got back into electronic music in a big way. You said in a Trouser Press interview at the time, "It's just myself and machines."

PETE: Yes, well... When we were doing the demos, it was just me in the studio and [producer] Martin Rushent. We got a synthesizer and a sequencer — a micro composer, it was called. And we just started doing demos using that. The second one we did was "Homosapien." It took about 18 hours to record it and mix it. Over the next two days, we did another two tracks, and then we started looking around for a record company that was interested in it.

Poster advertising the "Spiral Scratch" EP

Q: Are you playing any of your solo material on this tour?

PETE: No, it's just Buzzcocks' stuff. We've got enough of that!

Q: What songs are you doing tonight?

PETE: I think we're doing five or six off All Set, and three or four off Trade Test Transmissions, and the rest are off various albums and singles.

Q: Are you doing "Harmony in My Head"?

PETE: Yes!

Q: I read an interview where Steve said that his songs, like "Harmony in My Head," are more aggressive than the songs you write. Do you agree with that?

PETE: He tends to think that, but it's not my personal opinion.

Q: Where did Tony Barber [bassist] and Phil Barker [drummer] come from? How did they come to join the band?

PETE: We held auditions. They heard about the auditions and wanted to do it. I'd met Tony before; I knew he was a fan and he knew the songs. That's usually a good starting point, if you know all the songs! This is actually the longest-lasting lineup; it'll be four years in September.

Q: In the UK, the band has had a long list of singles in the charts, with "Ever Fallen in Love" reaching number 12. Yet I'd still be tempted to describe Buzzcocks as "underrated."

Pete Shelley advertises the July 20, 1976 concert with

the Sex Pistols, Slaughter and the Dogs & Buzzcocks at 

Manchester's Lesser Free Trade Hall.
Photo: Kevin Cummins

PETE: I'd agree with underrated.

Q: Do you think that's because you were based in Manchester as opposed to London?

PETE: I suppose that had a part to play. I mean, the thing is, the people that really like Buzzcocks, really like Buzzcocks — and they understand why they like us. Whereas other people don't see what all the fuss is about. I mean, we just have the reputation of being a good band, but sometimes that's not enough.

Q: And you've never gone out of your way to make a big splash.

PETE: Nah.

Q: Are you still based in Manchester?

PETE: No, I've been living in London for the past 11 years.

Q: Wow! I so much associate Buzzcocks with Manchester, I never thought you'd leave.

PETE: At one point I thought I'd never leave it, but they offered me a flat in London and I took it.

Q: What about Steve?

PETE: He moved down about three years ago.

Buzzcocks pose with Debbie Harry during Blondie's 1978 European tour

Photo: Chris Stein

Q: All Set was recorded at Fantasy Studios in Berkeley. Did someone recommend that studio?

PETE: Well, it's the studio that [producer] Neill King works out of. He'd just done an album for Menswear, who are friends of ours in London, and it had a great guitar sound. And when we were thinking about who we'd like to have produce the album, his name came up. Then we found out he'd also done the guitars on the Green Day albums. We just wanted to work with someone who knew how to treat a band with guitars. It was good because he's an Englishman! He's been living over here for eight or nine years, so he's got American studio ears. But he's got the same references as us and knows all the people we know, which made it easy to communicate.

Friars Aylesbury - Buzzcocks on Wednesday

Motorhead & Girlschool on Saturday!

Q: How long were you in the Bay Area for?

PETE: About five weeks. We'd just done a tour of South America, and we came straight from Sao Paulo.

Q: Did you go to Amoeba Records while you were here?

PETE: Yes!

Q: Are you a record collector?

PETE: I'm not, but Tony is. He's fanatical.

Q: Are you familiar with San Francisco now? Can you get around on your own?

PETE: Uhmm... a little bit.

Q: Did you do all the touristy things?

PETE: I didn't, no. I was in the studio all the time. No rest for me, 12-hour days.

Q: You didn't even ride on a cable car?

PETE: No.

Q: You mentioned that Neill King did the guitars on the Green Day albums. Did you meet Green Day while you were recording?

"Totally from the Heart" CD single

PETE: No, they were on tour.

Q: Are you interested in new punk groups like Green Day, Rancid, the Offspring...?

PETE: Uhmm... I do own some CDs.

Q: What's the music scene like in the UK now?

PETE: It seems to be mired in Britpop at the moment.

Q: Do you like Oasis and Blur?

PETE: I think Oasis are popular. And Blur are poppy.

Q: Do you go to see bands that were influenced by Buzzcocks?

PETE: It's sometimes impossible not to notice them. I have a growing collection of CDs and demo tapes from bands who cite us as an influence.

Q: Have you thought about producing some of them?

PETE: I've been asked on occasion, but it's never materialized.

Pete Shelley: "I have a growing collection of CDs and
demo tapes from bands who cite us as an influence."

Q: I'd like to ask you about some of the songs on All Set. Could you tell me a bit about "Point of No Return"?

PETE: I wrote "Point of No Return" in 1987. It was on a tape of "stuff to do things with." What's it about? Uhmm... that's a difficult one.

Q: What about the song "Some Kinda Wonderful"?

PETE: That's from 1986! I was asked to do a song for the film [a coming-of-age teen flick starring Eric Stoltz, Mary Stuart Masterson, and Lea Thompson].

Q: That was my initial thought when I saw the song title! But it's not included on the movie soundtrack.

PETE: No, it wasn't used. So, I just put it into a pile of cassettes.

Q: What about "Give It to Me"? What's the story behind that?

PETE: That's from 1984. In Britain, I did the music for the Tour de France — the intro and credits. "Give It to Me" is a version of that.

Advert for Buzzcocks' debut LP

Another Music in a Different Kitchen

United Artists - 1978

Q: Are there any new songs on this CD?

PETE: Yeah... [laughs] The new ones are "Totally from the Heart," "Hold Me Close," "Kiss and Tell," "What You Mean to Me," and "Pariah."

Q: "Totally from the Heart" and several other songs on All Set seem like fairly straightforward love songs without your usual cynicism. Do you think you've softened around the edges a bit over the years?

PETE: Not really... There's still plenty of hooks and barbs in there, things that you might not hear right away! "Totally from the Heart" has the message: "From now on is the time for becoming/One by one we can take control..."

Q: What do you mean by that?

PETE: That people are in control of their own lives and destiny.

Q: But at the same time, you're saying that you're scared of being alone and without this person.

PETE: It isn't really about a person. It's about people in general, about expectations.

Q: Something which has been pointed out about your lyrics, is that they're not gender specific. You don't use the words "she" or "he."

PETE: I try to avoid them.

Buzzcocks with support band Joy Division - Rainbow Theatre

Q: It's something you do on purpose?

PETE: Yes.

Q: Why?

PETE: For myself, it means I can transfer the feelings and thoughts onto anyone.

Q: While maintaining an air of ambiguity?

"Love You More" sheet music

words and music by Peter Shelley

PETE: Ambiguity... There's a lot to be said for it!

Q: Is that something you've always been consciously aware of?

PETE: Yeah... more or less. I mean, somebody in New York gave me a copy of this interview that they'd done with me back in '80/'81, and in it, I said that the thing about writing songs is that you can be vague and direct at the same time. There's a lot of reading between the lines to be done.

Q: It doesn't matter if you're male or female; you can relate the song to yourself.

PETE: Yeah, yeah! You can relate to it. I mean, if "Ever Fallen in Love" had any references to a specific gender, it wouldn't have been so universally accepted. Anything to do with relationships, there's I and You — and that's all you need, really.

Q: It's like you've set yourself this lyrical constraint, but in turn, it makes your songs more interesting. Buzzcocks are the only rock band I know of that does that on a conscious level.

PETE: It's sometimes on a par with... There was a French author who wrote a book without using the letter E [La Disparition by Georges Perec, written in 1968]. And then somebody translated it into English and avoided using the letter E as well.

Q: So... it's unreadable!

Pete Shelley: "If 'Ever Fallen in Love' had any

references to a specific gender, it wouldn't have been

so universally accepted."

PETE: No, it's supposed to be readable, but... It's just a literary trick!  It's hard to think up ways to be both vague and direct at the same time [laughs].

Q: Have you thought about collecting your lyrics into a book of poetry?

PETE: I've put all my lyrics up on the internet. All except the new ones, and I'll do them when I get back. I've got a website with all that stuff on it. My plan is to do a set of annotated lyrics where I'll tell stories about what the songs mean.

Q: What about writing a book of fiction?

PETE: No, I always find that reality is stranger than fiction!

Q: Is the song "Without You" on All Set about someone specific?

PETE: No, not really. I mean, sometimes I do have a person in mind when I'm writing a song. But then other people can fit in as well. So... no, it isn't about anybody specifically.

Q: How about "Hold Me Close"?

PETE: "Hold Me Close" started off with an idea that I had on a tape, and it was really fast. Tony said, "Let's try it a bit slower." And I said, "How much slower?" Because I don't like... you know...

Pete Shelley on the cover of the NME

June 17, 1978

Q: Buzzcocks aren't exactly known for ballads!

PETE: No, not really. I think that's the closest we've come in a long while. It just came about from that. As soon as we slowed it down, it took on a different character. I think it's quite "European."

Q: How about "What You Mean to Me"?

PETE: It's a bit more poetical than I usually get. It's all: "roads past stormy seas" and "darkening skies."

Q: And finally, what was the inspiration behind "Pariah"? It's the strangest song on the CD!

PETE: I'd worked out the riff, and the word "pariah... pariah..." just kept going through my head. I looked up pariah in the dictionary to see how to spell it, and it said that it comes from the drummer caste in Hindu — they were meant to be the lowest of the low and were shunned by everyone else. Because the song has lots of drums in it, that seemed to be the right title for it. And I got the quote "as above so below" from Hermes Trismegistus.

Q: You're obviously quite a literary person.

PETE: I have read books!

Q: What are your favorite books?

Promo poster for the Love Bites album

PETE: I like the Argentinian writer [Jorge Luis] Borges. And I like Robert Anton Wilson [best known for The Illuminatus! Trilogy], and Philip K. Dick, and William Burroughs...

Q: I'm surprised that you were studying electronics at college and not literature.

PETE: I had the qualifications to get onto the electronics course but not a literary course. But after doing two years of electronics, I dropped out and started doing Humanities.

Q: Were your parents disappointed that you formed a band instead of starting a career?

PETE: Well, the only career I could think of really was repairing TVs.

Q: You'd be a TV repairman if not for Buzzcocks?

PETE: Yeah! But I thought, there has to be something more to life.

Q: Were your parents supportive of your decision?

PETE: Yes, I suppose so. I mean, they didn't forbid me from doing what I wanted to do. The more successful we were, the more they liked it!

Q: I want to go back and ask you about Jets of Air. That was your band before Buzzcocks?

Pete Shelley: "The only career I could think of really was repairing TVs."

PETE: Yes, that was the first band that I formed.

Q: What was that group like?

PETE: It was a mixture of, uhmm... David Bowie, Roxy Music, and the Velvet Underground. It was like proto-punk, with noisy elements.

"Orgasm Addict" tour poster

Q: Who else was in that band?

PETE: The only other person you'd know was Garth [from an early Buzzcocks lineup].

Q: Did Jets of Air ever record anything?

PETE: Not really. I mean, not in the studio sense. There's a couple of rehearsal tapes, that's all.

Q: I've always wanted to ask you about the surname you chose to go by. Did you choose the name Shelley because you liked the poet?

PETE: People used to ask, "After the poet?" And I used to say, "It was the name I was going to be called if I was a girl." It would have been after Shelley Winters. So I used to say, "It's after Shelley Winters." Then I saw Shelley Winters on a chat show, and she was really called Shirley, but she changed it to Shelley after the poet. So, it is after the poet by a roundabout route!

Q: And can you clear up a rumor I've heard? Is it true that Bernie Rhodes wanted to steal you away from Buzzcocks and put you in a band with Keith Levine?

PETE: That's correct! Yes! I got a phone call from him just after Howard left. I also got a phone call from Rob Lloyd of the Prefects.

Q: Do you still talk to Howard? Do you still see him?

Ad for the "Love You More"/"Noise Annoys" 45

PETE: I haven't seen him for about a year. The last time I saw him, we went to see this play about the Sex Pistols. It was set in the Hotel Miyako in San Francisco. It was supposed to be based on the last day of the band. And we were saying, "Malcolm didn't talk like that!" Haha!

Q: So, you and Howard are still friends?

PETE: Yeah.

Q: He left on good terms, then?

PETE: Yeah. He was in the final year of his degree. His tutors took him to one side and said, "If you don't do the work, you won't get a degree." He'd done two years of psychology before that, and he wasn't getting a grant anymore. He was working during the summer and over the holidays to get the money to go to university. It was really important to him.

Q: Would you consider having him join the band onstage for a special show, or maybe as a guest appearance?

PETE: He hasn't since 1978. Buzzcocks and Magazine did a show at the Lesser Free Trade Hall for a documentary that Tony Wilson was doing.

Q: Was that the only time Buzzcocks played with Magazine?

Caroline Records advertisement for the

Trade Test Transmissions LP

PETE: I think so, yeah.

Q: What's Howard doing these days?

PETE: He's working at a photo library. He's a librarian.

Q: Have you ever thought about leaving music and getting a day job?

PETE: I've never had the desire to work. I gave up my day job the day before the Sex Pistols' show.

Q: What were you doing?

PETE: I was a trainee computer operator.

Q: Finally, what's the weirdest thing you've ever done to get in free to a rock concert?

PETE: Uhmm... Besides saying I was on the guestlist when I wasn't?

Q: That depends. Who was playing?

PETE: I dunno. It was just because they were serving late. I had no interest in the band.

Dee Snider: I Asked The Twisted Sister Frontman To Name His Five Desert Island Discs

Previously unpublished. This was meant to accompany an article about Dee Snider's new band Widowmaker in a 1992 issue of American Music Press.

Twisted Sister's Stay Hungry LP

Photo: Mark Weiss

By Devorah Ostrov

Short on time at the end of a telephone interview about Widowmaker, Dee Snider's press agent told him he could only answer one more question before moving on (presumably to chat with a journalist with more clout than myself).

Knowing what a huge rock 'n' roll fan he is, I asked Dee to name his five Desert Island Discs — thereby ensuring that I totally screwed up whatever time had been allotted to everyone else! 

Unfortunately (or perhaps ironically), American Music Press didn't have the space to include this list with the article. But luckily, I still have the transcript! Now, I can finally reveal Dee Snider's Desert Island Disc choices circa 1992...

1. Montrose 
Montrose (Warner Bros. 1973)
"It's just classic, timeless, heavy rock 'n' roll. Great singing, great playing. It still holds up!"

2. Alice Cooper 
Killer (Warner Bros. 1971)
"I like a lot of stuff afterwards, but 'You Drive Me Nervous' and 'Under My Wheels' — that to me is Alice at his best!"

3. Queen
Queen II (EMI/Elektra 1974)
"I was one of the first Queen fans. That album is one of the greatest albums of all time! It really has such DEPTH! You could spend years with it and not get all the nuances."

4. The Sex Pistols 
Never Mind the Bollocks Here's the Sex Pistols (Virgin 1977)
"The anger and aggression are just devastating! It's a DRIVEN record, with as much metal credibility as Montrose 1. And its simplicity is brilliant!"

"You're really putting a gun to my head here. If I could, I would say a compilation of the Bad Co. catalog. But if I can't say that, I'll say..."

5. Led Zeppelin 
Led Zeppelin II (Atlantic 1969)
"Legendary vintage playing and singing. Every instrument SPEAKS on that record. The song quality: 'Heartbreaker,' 'Whole Lotta Love,' 'Living Loving Maid' … It's got such musical depth!"

As Dee had by now forgotten about all the other interviews he was supposed to do, I pressed on.

Q: I notice that you've stuck completely to the '70s with your list. (Led Zeppelin II was released in 1969, but it's close enough.)

Dee: That's pretty sickening, isn't it? That's because... Although there are many bands that I enjoy from the '80s... Just to show you bands I'm listening to now — Chilli Peppers, Faith No More, Guns N' Roses, of course, Skid Row, Kings X, Pantera, Metallica, Black Crowes, Nirvana... I like the Seattle scene a lot. I think there's a lot of great bands! Maybe I'm just incapable at this point of getting into a band the way I got into it before I was a performer. I listen to them now, not as a fan so much as it's more analytical. And they don't sparkle as much, in the way the bands of my youth did. You kinda looked up at them; I saw them on pedestals and there was a certain glamour. Now, any record that comes out, I see as my peers. So, I'm looking at my peers and going, "Wow! They have a great record!" The Nirvana thing is really cool! But when you're looking at equals, it doesn't have the romance that the bands of your youth did. I realize that we seem that way to our fans, but once you break through that door, the romance goes out the window, and you have a much more realistic view of it.

For some reason, I must have professed my undying devotion to Slade. I'm guessing I said something idiotic because I didn't bother to transcribe it. However, Dee replied in a most unexpected way — which kept him on the phone for another 10 minutes.

Slade - Slayed? (Polydor 1972)

Dee: Slade!!! You're a Slade fan!? I LOVE Slade!!! I met Noddy Holder, and I was bowing. "I'm not worthy." I never mentioned them because people are like, "Who?" You were a BIG Slade fan?

It would seem I said yes. Again, I didn't transcribe whatever it was I said, but Dee's voice lowered from its usual roar to something resembling a conspiratorial whisper.

Dee: All right... I've never told anybody this, only because they wouldn't really appreciate it. I wonder sometimes where I get ideas for songs. Remember their song "I Won't Let It 'Appen Agen"? 

Dee then sang the chorus to Slade's 1972 stomper, followed by Twisted Sister's signature slogan: "'It's not gonna 'appen, and no, it won't 'appen/I won't let it 'appen agen.' Well... 'We're not gonna take it, no, we ain't gonna take it/We're not gonna take it anymore.'"

He also kindly proffered a line-by-line comparison of the two tunes:

"It's not gonna 'appen, and no, it won't 'appen..."

"We're not gonna take it, no, we ain't gonna take it..."

"I won't let it 'appen..."

"We're not gonna take it..."

"Agen..."

"Anymore..."

"It's really subtle 'cause it's not the same melody," he added. "But the way it's laid out, it's the same pattern. And the rhythm of it is identical to Slade's song. I realized that years later. I'm a HUGE Slade fan! I saw Slade, and the next day I bought three of their albums. I was just decimated! They just blew me away! I have to go. It's been great talking to you. Two kindred spirits! And the last thing I wanna say is BABY! BABY! BABY!"

* * *

For my full interview with Dee Snider, including a frank discussion about his post-Twisted Sister career and the dilemma of voting democrat in 1992, please go here:
devorahostrov.blogspot.com/2018/07/dee-snider