Interviews by Devorah Ostrov
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The Lords of the New Church - publicity photo
L-R: Nick Turner, Dave Tregunna, Brain James & Stiv Bators
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Part 1: March 1986 at the Stone in San Francisco
Q: I understand that the Lords were dropped by I.R.S. last year. Are you touring over here without label support?
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| Stiv pretends he's starring in A Clockwork Orange on the roof of a Los Angeles hotel. Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Q: Does he hope you'll come back to I.R.S.?
Stiv: Yeah, he's hoping we'll re-sign. What happened was... We were officially dropped last May, but they tried to swing a deal where they could re-sign us in December [1985] going into January [1986]. But they wanted us to re-sign with a first-year option.
Q: Basically, like you're a new band on the label?
Stiv: Yeah, we start all over again. What they do... They tell you they're dropping you when your option comes up. But because Miles is also our manager, they said, "Don't worry. We'll put you on another label." Then they come back and say, "Nobody's interested in you. We'll re-sign you, but with a first-year option." So, instead of paying you what they're supposed to, they re-sign you at like $30,000. I checked up on it; Miles never sent our tapes to anyone. In the meantime, they wanted us to sign this thing where they'd give us so much per week to survive on — a pitiful amount of money per week. So, when he said he was gonna drop us, we said, "Fine." We went on tour and survived that way.
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The Lords bid farewell to LA with this gig at the
Music Machine - August 6, 1986, with Blood on
the Saddle, the Little Kings, and Jetboy.
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Stiv: They said we hadn't recouped the money... In other words, all the money that they put into the band is a loan, and they're supposed to get it back from record sales. But that was when The Method to Our Madness came out [1984]. That's why there was no push on it. And it's funny, about three months later, a bill for £450,000 that they said was unrecouped suddenly recouped. So, y'know... it's all bullshit!
Stiv: I think it was December. Miles tried to stop us [touring]. He got rid of our road crew to other people; offered 'em more money. But what finally did it was... We were supposed to do a tour of England in November, and that would have held us over with enough money to survive. Two weeks before the tour started, I.R.S. stopped the release of the album [Killer Lords], which made all the promoters back out. When that happened... Dave had no money, and on Christmas Eve he was evicted from his flat. He'd been working with Andy [McCoy, ex-Hanoi Rocks/ Cherry Bombz guitarist] on his solo project. He had nowhere to go, and we'd stopped touring, so he went with Cherry Bombz.
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| Brian James - San Francisco, 1984 Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Stiv: He was thrown out of the Dirty Strangers for drinking!
Q: But they're all big drinkers!
Stiv: Yeah, but Alastair's a big drinker! Anyway, he was a friend of Brian's and they just started jamming together. Then, when I came back from America, I found out he was in the band.
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The Lords are CREEM magazine's
centerfold calendar pic - October 1986.
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Q: So, how's it working out with Grant and Alastair?
Stiv: Good.
Q: 'Cause everybody seemed to be fighting last night.
Stiv: That's normal; the English always do that.
Q: Does having a rhythm guitarist make a big difference to the band's sound?
Stiv: Yeah, a real big difference. It's more like when I did the show with the Dead Boys last Halloween. I had forgotten what it was like to have two guitarists. There's a lot more power. You can feel it more.
Q: Have you moved back to New York now? Or are you still living in London?
Stiv: I share a flat with Brian in London, and I live with Martha [Quinn, MTV VJ] in New York.
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| Alastair Symons & Brian James at Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Stiv: We did some demo tapes. But Mike got talked out of releasing 'em by his manager because they weren't perfect — because it was 8-track. He thinks everything has to be 24-track. The best stuff is on 8-track! But yeah, me and Michael are gonna do something at the end of this tour.
Q: Who sings when you two record together?
Stiv: Uhmm... both of us. We do harmonies. It's like the Everly Brothers.
Q: How did you and Mike get involved with Little Steven and his Artists United Against Apartheid project?
Stiv: Oh, I thought it was for apartheid. I fucked up again.
Q: Haha!
Stiv: Little Steven came over when Bruce Springsteen was playing in London, and he ended up producing "Lords Prayer" [written for the band by T.V. Smith] and "Hey Tonight" [a CCR cover; both songs are included on Killer Lords]. Then he came back to London to record some people for [the single] "Sun City," and he asked me and Mike to come down to the studio. We did the high-pitched girls' vocals. When it sounds like black girls singing, it's really me and Mike!
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R.E.M. open for the Lords at the Old Waldorf
San Francisco - August 24, 1982
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Stiv: Yeah, he plays a 12-string and sings back-up on "I Wanna Be with You" [a Raspberries' cover], and he sings back-up on "She's No Angel" [a Heavy Metal Kids' cover]. It was good because when I was in the studio, Steven made me sing "Lord's Prayer" about 15 times! But I was producing Mike's demo, so I got him back. I kept telling him, "You missed it! It ain't good enough! Do it again!"
Q: I remember being in the recording studio when you were doing the vocals for "Method to My Madness." Chris [Tsangarides, producer] made you do the same word over and over again. It took hours to do the one song! I didn't realize it was so difficult.
Stiv: It's only difficult when the singers on speed.
Q: Last night, you were saying that you'd lost ten years of your life because of drug use, that complete years are gone from your memory.
Stiv: I remember bits here and there.
Q: That seems kind of sad, considering the amazing life you've led.
Stiv: Nah... It's kind of fun, 'cause people tell you about all the fun you've had. It's surprising!
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| Stiv Bators Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Q: But you're nothing like your reputation. You're a sweetheart.
Stiv: Don't tell anyone that! Haha!
Q: What do your parents think about your image?
Stiv: They don't think it's real. The first time my mom saw me onstage, Iggy Pop joined us, and some girl jumped up with a can of whipped cream and gave me a blow job. My mom just didn't even see it. It was like, "That's not my son up there!" But now she's learned to deal with it. I even told them recently about me using heroin and speed and stuff, and they said they always knew.
Q: Do your parents still live in Youngstown [Ohio]?
Stiv: Yeah, the same place where I grew up. They tried to get away a few times, but with the right detective agency, I always found out where they were and brought 'em back! Haha! The last time I went home, my mom paid me for the paper but wouldn't let me in. She thought I was the paperboy. They hate me.
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The Lords of the New Church with Fields of the Nephilim
Camden Palace - November 27, 1986 |
Stiv: Yeah, they have to be. I'm the only one. I'm what they got! The government paid 'em $30 a week not to have any more children. Haha! My parents... Have you met 'em?
Q: No...
Stiv: They're really nice. My dad used to sing on the radio before WW2, and then during the war, he did USO shows. He was in the Navy USO. He sang with Kay Kaiser and Tommy Dorsey. When he came out, he had a record contract waiting for him, but he gave it up 'cause he wanted to settle down. Plus, he had to support my grandmother and his younger brothers and sisters 'cause my grandfather was a drunk. He was a gypsy...
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| I.R.S. advert for Is Nothing Sacred? |
Stiv: I'm a bit of both, I guess. 'Cause my grandfather was a right bastard! He used to beat the wife and all that.
Q: There were quite a few new songs in last night's set. Are you working on new material?
Stiv: Yeah, there's eight new songs. One's called "Wine, Women and Song" and there's "Light and Shade"... But those are just the working titles. In fact, there's no lyrics for 'em yet.
Q: So, you just made them up?
Stiv: Yeah, I always do. Once they're recorded, I have to remember what I put down.
Q: I'm sure you adlib occasionally!
Stiv: Oh, yeah! Definitely. I always forget the lyrics to "Open Your Eyes."
Q: So, eight new songs... That's an album's worth.
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The Lords of the New Church on the cover
of Sounds - November 24, 1984
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Q: Are demo tapes done and ready to shop to potential labels?
Q: What's happening?
Stiv: Halley's Comet.
Q: I know there've been loads of reports about how debris from its tail will pummel the planet, but the comet has already passed over California without causing any problems.
Stiv: Just say if a piece of Halley's Comet came off and struck America... It would set off the Doomsday machine. Y'know, there's a sensor system, like if we get hit by something. If it feels like an atomic war or a nuclear attack, the first strike goes straight to Russia.
Q: The actual existence of a Doomsday machine is debatable, but I'll play along. And then Russia sends a strike our way...
Stiv: Right!
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| Me & Stiv during the "Clockwork Orange" photo session. |
Stiv: But that only happens if a piece falls off. There's also Mount St. Helens [the active volcano located in Washington, which last erupted in 1980]. Mount St. Helens is going to erupt because of Halley's Comet. That's how they figure it's gonna happen. The gravitational pull of Halley's Comet is gonna set off the fault lines and the volcano. There's already been an earthquake in Mexico City. When we were in Tokyo last year, we had an earthquake there. It's been setting off volcanos all around the "ring of fire," which goes from Peru to the Philippines. It's going to set 'em all off.
Q: So, I guess you're not making any plans to record some demos in LA?
Stiv: If it's still here. But Howard Hughes built a seaport in Nevada called Las Vegas. That's the reason he built it there, so he'd have the closest city to...
Stiv: That's why they declared him insane, 'cause he knew what was going on. He was too brilliant; they had to put him away.
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| Stiv Bators and Dave Tregunna Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Stiv: I'm not a threat yet, but Miles is working on it. Miles already told me to keep my mouth shut about politics, 'cause I knew about a lot of things that were going on.
Q: According to one article I read, you made some "loose accusations" regarding the Falklands.
Stiv: I was on an English TV show... It was live, and I told 'em that the [HMS] Sheffield was sunk by a particle-beam weapon and not an Exocet missile. It was cut out of the re-run, and Miles told me to never talk about it again. But recently, the commander of the Sheffield admitted that it was a particle-beam weapon that sank it. And the whole reason the Falklands [War] started was to free this nuclear cache that we had. I could go on and on, but it gets boring. Miles' father [CIA officer Miles Copeland, Jr.] called me into the office one day. He wanted to know where I got all my information. I had a lot of tapes with military secrets and government secrets that were sent to me, but I had to get rid of 'em real quick 'cause his father was on to me. My flat got burgled three days after that, but they didn't find 'em.
Q: You think the CIA burgled your flat?
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| Nick posing at the entrance to SF's Chinatown Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Q: What did they take?
Stiv: Magazines... some subversive stuff... military secrets.
Q: This interview is starting to sound like the lyrics to "Method to My Madness."
Stiv: That's what the song is about, how the record company is trying to stop us: "Boy, you better shut your mouth/You can't afford the bail/Don't go telling secrets/This records gotta sell." We had Miles do the voice. He didn't even realize...
Q: He didn't realize what he was saying?
Stiv: No! And they released it as our single. Dumb bastards!
Q: Do you get to see a lot of new bands these days?
Stiv: I don't really get a chance to.
Q: Are you still a big rock 'n' roll fan?
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The Lords of the New Church support the Damned
at the Hammersmith Palais - July 10, 1983
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Stiv: Especially now with MTV and videos. The lifestyle is more important than the music sometimes.
Q: Do you think your lifestyle sometimes overshadows your music?
Stiv: Yeah, it's a shame when I actually have to get up and sing.
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Advert for the Lords 1984 UK tour
with I.R.S. labelmates Wall of Voodoo.
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Stiv: Yeah, I think they should just pay me for that. I could just go to clubs and hang out. I actually try to get away with that sometimes.
Q: Are you a fan of your former labelmates, Wall of Voodoo? You guys did a UK tour with them in '84, which seemed like a really good match.
Stiv: Andy [Prieboy, who replaced Stan Ridgway as Wall of Voodoo's vocalist] is a great singer. They're better now than they ever were. Bruce [Moreland, bassist] is cool. And Andy's got a lot of that Morrison persona about him.
Q: You've got a bit of a Morrison persona as well. Are you into him?
Stiv: More so after I read the book [No One Here Gets Out Alive]. Not so much when he was... performing. I almost said alive, but he is alive. But after I read the book, there were so many parallels between us. Like staying in the same hotel rooms — even in Paris.
Q: I heard about that. That's really wild.
Stiv: More so after I read the book [No One Here Gets Out Alive]. Not so much when he was... performing. I almost said alive, but he is alive. But after I read the book, there were so many parallels between us. Like staying in the same hotel rooms — even in Paris.
Q: I heard about that. That's really wild.
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| Stiv Bators Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Stiv: When I met [Danny] Sugerman, he was really freaked out. He said I'm so close to Morrison's spirit... By being in all those places... He thinks I was drawn to them by the spirit of Jim Morrison — the same demon.
Q: But you've said you weren't a Doors fan as a teenager.
Stiv: No, I never liked 'em 'cause they weren't a guitar band. I preferred the Stooges.
Q: You mentioned last year's Dead Boys reunion earlier. That must have been pretty awesome!
Stiv: It was great!
Q: How did it come about?
Stiv: It actually started in Japan. I thought of it when I was on the Bullet Train coming back from Kyoto to Tokyo. I suddenly realized that Halloween was coming up, and it was the 10th anniversary of the Dead Boys getting together. I thought it would be good to get everybody back together, but I didn't know how I was going to get to New York. So, I called up Little Steven on the off chance... I'd had this letter from him saying he was making the ["Sun City"] video, and he flew me and Mike over. So, it was all just meant to happen. I called up all the Dead Boys, some of 'em I hadn't seen or talked to in six years. And they said they were into it.
Q: Was the place packed for the reunion?
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The Dead Boys at the Old Waldorf - 1977
Photo: Devorah Ostrov
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Stiv: Yeah, plus we did "She's No Angel." Mike and Little Steven got up and did the encores. And we did the Dead Boys' version of "Tell Me" with Holly Beth Vincent.
Q: It must have been pretty emotional, everybody getting back together after all that time.
Stiv: Yeah... It was traumatic.
Q: Are you surprised that there's still so much interest in the Dead Boys?
Stiv: At first, I was. But it's sort of like how I felt about the Stooges when I was younger; that's how people feel about the Dead Boys now. We're legends in our own minds!
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Part 2: October 1986 in Alastair Symons' living room
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The Lords of the New Church with
Will & the Kill at Cave Club
July 25, 1987 |
Q: This is a nice place. The last time I was in London, you had a flat off Portobello Road.
Stiv: Arundel Gardens... Me, Mike [Monroe] and [Johnny] Thunders were sharing it.
Q: That must have been a crazy living situation.
Stiv: Yeah, it was fun!
Q: Did anyone ever sleep?
Stiv: Nah! We used to go for ten days at a time and then sleep for three days. It was so bad. Johnny would be sitting there going, "Somebody's on the roof! I heard somebody on the roof!" And he'd look out the window thinking the police were following him. There was no one around, y'know! We had a good time, though.
Q: What's the situation with the Lords now? You're a band but still without a label?
Stiv: Yeah, we haven't had a contract since May of '85.
Q: Are you doing as well without I.R.S. as you would with them?
Stiv: Yeah! Bomp Records handles things a lot better! The original I.R.S. in LA was great. That's why we signed with them. They had people who really liked the music; they liked rock 'n' roll. You go into their offices now, and it's like MCA or any of the others. The trouble is, they don't have any of the benefits. They're very inefficient and very uncaring.
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| Stiv Bators and Brian James Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Stiv: We gave them a chance with the first album. They could've really pushed it, but they didn't do it right. They were afraid of us. The second album... They just pissed it out. We wanted out then, but Miles said, "Stick with me for the third album." So, we stuck with him. After that, we just wanted out. We'd wasted too much time and too many good songs.
Q: There's something I don't understand... If you weren't signed to the label at the time of its release, why are two Lords' songs on the I.R.S. soundtrack for Texas Chainsaw Massacre 2? Did Tobe Hooper [the film's producer] approach you directly?
Stiv: Well, Miles is our manager, publisher, and ex-record company. So, our manager approached our publisher, who approached his record company. Tobe Hooper didn't know who we were.
Q: But since you weren't signed to I.R.S...
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Meet the Dead Boys! The band pose with Howie Klein &
Chris Knab outside Aquarius Records in San Francisco - 1977
Photo: Devorah Ostrov
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| Brian James - San Francisco, 1983 Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Stiv: Yeah. I don't like the chorus, really.
Q: You can't really hear it that well in the movie. There's a chainsaw going through a car over most of it.
Stiv: Good! A few months ago, I found out that "Russian Roulette" is in a 1983 film called The Star Chamber. We were never told. And Weird Science has "Method" in it.
Q: Yeah, I knew about Weird Science.
Stiv: We were never told about that! Out of Bounds has "Fresh Flesh"; Dangerously Close has "A Kiss of Death." And now Texas Chainsaw... We've never seen any money from any of them.
Q: Wow! I didn't realize you had songs in all those movies.
Stiv: I didn't either!
Q: You told me earlier that you're going back to the States in a few days for health reasons. What's up?
Stiv: Put it this way, three weeks ago I had £2000 and today...
Q: It's all gone?
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The Lords of the New Church - publicity photo
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So, I'm going back either tomorrow or Sunday. I'm gonna stay with my parents. I only see them like three or four days out of the year. And I'll go to Martha's for a while and see my cat. He's over there with three female white cats in a penthouse in New York.
Q: He's got it better than you!
Stiv: Yeah, from the backstreets of London to a penthouse in New York! And the Dead Boys are rehearsing. We're playing at the Ritz on Halloween. It's already sold out!
Stiv: We did it last Halloween because it was our 10th anniversary, and this year is the 10th anniversary for New York, 'cause we moved there a year later. A year from now, we can have our 10th anniversary for San Francisco. Do you remember that first Lords show in San Francisco? I got drunk at the York Hotel before the show.
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| Stiv Bators (San Francisco - 1986) Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Stiv: I couldn't find the mike!
Q: I know! There were no vocals for most of the set.
Stiv: They carried me into the show...
Q: And they carried you off stage, too. I've been wondering... What's going on with the solo project you were working on for Bomp? Will you be able to finish that?
Stiv: Yeah, when I find the time. It'll probably be after I do this Dead Boys project. And the Lords... When I come back from that, we're gonna redo the demos and remix them. Then we have a tour coming up at the end of November through mid-December going through France, Italy, and Switzerland. And then I'll probably go home for Christmas. I can take the tapes around New York and go out to LA, 'cause I'd like to do it.
Stiv: There's better songs that I can do. I hadn't really given it much thought. I'm gonna keep "Story in Her Eyes." And "Have Love Will Travel" is good; I wanna keep that pretty much the way it is. But I'm gonna redo a lot of it.
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| The Lords outside the York Hotel in San Francisco Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Stiv: It's the music that I've always found the most exciting. The '50s were good, but in the '60s, music reached more of a progressive level and the ideas became more progressive. They started using different sounds and different rhythms. And there was just such an innocence and naiveté about it. I really like it! It's fresh sounding. It was exciting! By the end of the '60s, they'd pushed it as far as they could go, and ever since then, we've just been rehashing it. Instead of inventing new sounds or new styles, we're just mixing one style with another.
Q: Have you made a conscious effort to always do something different with your bands? Or would you say that you're rehashing and recombining styles as well?
Stiv: The Lords was a definite sound that I had in my head. If you listen to "Bad Luck Charm" on my solo album [Disconnected, released in 1980], you'll hear the Lords — the jungle rhythms and sort of an eerie voodoo guitar. Brian had almost the same sound in his head.
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| Stiv Bators - San Francisco, 1984 Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Stiv: The Dead Boys just came out of... We were sick of the scene in Cleveland; there was no scene. We were just frustrated. And they were the only guys I'd found who knew who the Stooges were. We just started off playing Stooges' and Dolls' songs until we found our sound. So, that happened by accident. "The Dead Boys: The mistake on the lake!"
Q: You once told me that the albums you're most proud of are the ones you weren't thinking about too much. Like the first Lords' record and your first solo LP — where there was nothing to live up to.
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The Lords of the New Church with
Redd Kross, and the American Girls
Pomona Valley Auditorium
March 28, 1986
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Q: Maybe this break will be good for you. When you come back, things will be fresh.
Q: Do you think your notoriety is part of the reason you're having trouble getting signed?
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| Stiv Bators Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Stiv: A lot of the time, I don't think people — record companies — even know who I am. And I'm surprised when they do! What was really surprising... This guy told me he was watching an interview with Grace Slick, and they asked her who her favorite singer was, and she said it was me! That was... I dunno... I still don't think of myself as like... that people know who I am.
Q: You don't think of yourself as being famous?
Stiv: No! Or that people in the business would know who I am. Or have even heard of me. So that thought never entered into my head, about approaching record companies. But I guess we do have a reputation now for being uh... hard to work with.
Q: That's a good way to put it. Do you find it strange that kids look up to you as a role model?
Stiv: No, I can perfectly understand why kids would wanna be like me. Haha! It is strange, and sometimes I feel funny about it. This kid from another band was talking to me recently... We were just hanging out, and he said, "Talking to you and Brian is really a thrill for me." I'd never even picked it up off him.
Q: Are you happy being a cult hero?
Q: You don't think of yourself as being famous?
Stiv: No! Or that people in the business would know who I am. Or have even heard of me. So that thought never entered into my head, about approaching record companies. But I guess we do have a reputation now for being uh... hard to work with.
Q: That's a good way to put it. Do you find it strange that kids look up to you as a role model?
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| Stiv Bators Photo: Devorah Ostrov |
Q: "It's better to never have a hit record..." That's a strange thing for a musician to say.
Stiv: It depends on what you want in life. For ten years I've done exactly what I want to do, and money hasn't kept me from it. And neither has anything else. If you have a hit single, you have to follow it up with another hit single, and another hit single. You're pushed up to this plateau. Jimmy Destri [Blondie's keyboardist] once told me that him and Clem [Burke, Blondie's drummer] thought that I'd made it and they hadn't. Which I thought was bizarre. Jimmy said, "We have to keep coming up with hits or that's it, and the band breaks up." And they can't play clubs again because they'll look like has-beens.
Q: Jimmy would just be "ex-Blondie" for the rest of his life.
Stiv: I'm just X-rated for the rest of my life! It's much better that way.
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| The memorial card acknowledging Stiv's death on June 3, 1990 |
You can read my other interviews with Stiv here:
The Dead Boys: Brand New Band, Same Old StivLords Of The New Church: Hanging Out On Portobello
Great interview!!!
ReplyDeleteMany thanks! Glad you liked it!
DeleteThank you for sharing
ReplyDeleteCheers Charles! Glad you enjoyed the article!
DeleteThe years of the last century were reminded,👍thx
ReplyDeleteYou're welcome! Glad you enjoyed the article!
DeleteGreat interview. Amazing :)
ReplyDeleteThank you! Much appreciated!
DeleteDevora, your interviews to Stiv are seriously the best that I have read to him.
ReplyDeleteThanx!
Many thanks, Mikel. Much appreciated! Stiv was a good friend and I miss him a lot.
Delete